Pynes of London

Grace Florence Pyne, the wife of Dudley James Ponting (Chapter 13) was the daughter of George Thomas Pyne and Annie Jane Pyne formerly Stroud nee Scott

George Thomas Pyne, my great great grandfather, was born on 4 June 1841 at Walworth Gardens, East Street, Newington the son of Eleanora Pyne, needlewoman. No details are given of George's father. (Reg Gen June Qtr 1841 Newington 4 3442).

The 1841 census (taken 7 June) shows the as yet unnamed George and his family living at Walworth Gardens, St Mary's Newington, Lambeth, Surrey (SE17)

  • Eleanor Pine, aged 30, laundress
  • Eleanor Pine, aged 12
  • Susannah Pine, aged 8
  • Sarah (Ann) Pine, aged 6
  • U/K Pine (male), aged 2 days

Only her youngest child is shown as having been born in the same county.

They were living either in the same house, or next door to Benjamin Simmons, a 30 year hawker, his wife Caroline and their family. In the 1841 census adults over the age of 15 were rounded  to the nearest 5 years. 

Thomas Pyne and Eleanor Simmons

It seems likely that George's mother Eleanor was Eleanor Simmons who had married Thomas Pyne on 8 February 1829 at St John the Baptist Church in Clerkenwell (EC1). The witnesses had been Phillipp Pymm and Benjamin Simmons (originally recorded as Susanna Simmons). Both parties signed the marriage register.

Eleanor Simmons, born on 3 December 1808 was baptised on 25 December 1808 at St Botolph Without Aldersgate (EC3), London. 

She was likely the daughter of Benjamin Simmons and Susanna Pymm who married on 27 September 1801 at St Nicholas Church, Brighton. Benjamin was a member of 16th Regiment of Light Dragoons. 

Benjamin and Susanna's first child was Benjamin Phillips Simmons who had been baptised on 1 April 1804 at St Botolph without Aldersgate. He had married  Caroline Benison on 7 December 1823 and it appears likely that they were living next to his sister Eleanor in Walworth Gardens in 1841 (see above). 

Thomas and Eleanor's first daughter Eleanor Pyne had been born on 11 February 1830 and was baptised on 14 March 1830 at All Souls Church, Langham Place, Westminster. Thomas and Eleanor were living at 70 Marylebone Lane, W1 and Thomas was 'in trade'.

I can find no trace of Susannah Pyne's baptism. She would have been born around 1832, Later censuses suggest in Marylebone (like her sisters).

Sarah Ann Pyne was baptised on 23 November 1834 at Marylebone. Thomas and Eleanor were living at 390 High Street, Marylebone and Thomas was in "trade".

It is possible that Thomas Pyne had died between Sarah Ann's birth and that of George Thomas Pyne and that George Thomas Pyne took his mother's married name even though Thomas was not his father. Whilst the subsequent marriages of the sisters do not support this, I have seen a number of other instances where a deceased father is not always described as such. The only burials traced pre 1841 that may be of interest are those of:

  • George Thomas Pyne of York Place who died aged 49 and was buried on 23 April 1837 at Islington
  • Thomas Pyne of Weymouth Street, who died aged 37 and was buried on 4 June 1837 at St Marylebone.

Both of these pre-date civil registration and I have not been able to trace a will for either. Weymouth Street is in the Marylebone area of London and so it seems that Thomas' burial in June 1837 is the most likely to have been Eleanor's husband.  

Whilst this is speculation we do know that by the time the 1851 census was taken, it appears Eleanor may have re-married and the family are living at 3 Elizabeth Place (below ground), Melon Ground, Camberwell, Surrey. The entry includes the following:

  • George William Prouse, head, aged 40, coachman, born Peckham Hill.
  • Eleanor Prouse, wife aged 42, born Aldersgate, London.
  • Eleanor Pyne, daughter in law , aged 21, servant without situation, born Marylebone.
  • Susanna Pyne, daughter in law, aged 19, servant without situation, born Marylebone.
  • Sarah Ann Pyne, daughter in law, aged 16, servant without situation, born Marylebone.
  • George Thomas Pyne, son in law, aged 9, servant without situation, born Walworth, blind

Daughter in law and son in law clearly do not mean what they do now and the children should correctly be referred to as George's step children (if indeed their mother had married George Prouse). No trace has been found of the marriage to date and Eleanor had reverted to Pyne by the time the 1871 census was taken.

G W Prowse of Camberwell died on Saturday 9 July 1853. George William Prowse of "Melon Ground", Camberwell was buried on 17 July 1853 at St Giles, Camberwell. He would have been just 42 years old.

I can find no trace of Eleanor in 1861.

In 1871 'Helena' Pyne, a 62 year old widow is living with her son George Thomas Pyne and his family at 100 Aldersgate, St Botolph without London.

The record of admissions and discharges to Homerton Workhouse shows Eleanor Pyne was admitted on 26 May 1874. Her last residence before admission had been 1 Golden Lion Close. She was a 66 year old widow who gave her occupation as 'charwoman'. under 'able bodied' it is noted 'no'. She died in the workhouse on 19 June 1874. Her death certificate confirms that she was resident in Bromley workhouse. She is described as "widow of Thomas Pyne, dealer in chinaware" (Reg Gen June Qtr 1874 Poplar (to 1965) 1c 395). Was this George's mother?

I have set out below what I believe is known about Eleanor's daughters and their descendants. The attached chart, hopefully illustrates the relationship between Eleanor's daughters descendants and my great x 2 grandfather George Thomas Pyne.  The chart might need to be downloaded and expanded to enable it to be read properly.

 Scroll down if you are only interested in George Thomas Pyne and his descendants. 

Eleanor Smithers nee Pyne

Eleanor Pyne was baptised on 14 March 1830 at All Souls Church, Langham Place, Westminster. Thomas and Eleanor Pyne were living at 70 Marylebone Lane, W1 and Thomas was 'in trade'.

When the 1851 census was taken, Eleanor was living with her mother and stepfather at 3 Elizabeth Place (below ground), Melon Ground, Camberwell, Surrey. She was 21 years old, a "servant out of situation.

On 21 September 1851 Eleanor Pyne, daughter of Thomas Pyne, butcher married Henry James Smithers, a brass worker of Commercial Road. One of the witnesses was Susan Pyne. Later census returns confirm Eleanor was born in 1830 in Marylebone.

I did have concerns about whether this Eleanor Pyne was the daughter of "our" Eleanor Pyne and therefore George Thomas Pyne's elder sister, particularly as if she was the daughter of Eleanor and Thomas Pyne, then the marriage certificate does not show her father as "deceased". However Eleanor's son William Tilbury Smithers was visiting the widow of his uncle George Thomas Pyne in 1881 and this is either a very strange coincidence or supports the view that they were members of the same family. Henry and Eleanor's children would have been cousins of George Thomas Pyne's daughters including my great grand mother Grace Florence Pyne.

Henry and Eleanor Smithers went on to have, at least, six children:

  • Eleanor Mary Smithers. Baptised 8 August 1852 at St Mary Magdalene, Woolwich
  • Mary Ann Smithers. Born 28 November 1854.  Baptised 26 July 1865 in St James, Piccadilly.  
  • Emily Anne Smithers. Born 23 January 1856. Baptised 26 July 1865 in St James, Piccadilly.  
  • William Tilbury Smithers. Born 9 January 1858. Baptised 26 July 1865 in St James, Piccadilly.  
  • Henry John Smithers. Born 3 January 1862. Baptised 26 July 1865 in St James, Piccadilly. 
  • John Smithers. Born 9 February 1865. Baptised 26 July 1865 in St James, Piccadilly 
  • Phillip James Smithers. Born 9 September 1866 in St Pauls, Middlesex. Baptised 24 December 1876! at St Paul's, Covent Garden. For some reason this entry is crossed out in the parish records..  

In 1861 the family were living at 4 Wellington Place, Plumstead where 28 year old Henry was a brass worker and gas fitter. The census confirms that Eleanor was born in Marylebone.

Five of Henry and Eleanor's children were baptised on 26 July 1865 in St James, Piccadilly. Henry was a gas engineer. 

Henry and Eleanor's son Henry J Smithers died in 1866 aged 4 years old (Reg Gen March 1868 St James 1a 308). 

In 1871 the family were living at 17 Bedford Court, St Pauls, Covent Garden. Henry was still working as a gas fitter engineer. None of the girls were listed. 13 year old William was a doctors apprentice.

In 1881 the family were at 8 Henrietta Street, Bloomsbury, 48 year old Henry is still a gas fitter engineer. Only John and Phillip remained at home.

Eleanor Smithers of 19, Romney Street, Westminster died aged 53 years (Reg Gen Sept 1883 St George Hanover 1a 289) and was buried on 8 August 1883 in un-consecrated ground at Hanwell Cemetery, Westminster.

It is possible that in 1891 Henry was lodging at Blackfriars Hotel, St Saviours, Southwark. Aged 59 he is still working as a Brass Finisher.

Henry James Smithers died aged 66 and was buried on 27 December 1898 at Newham. 

Nothing further is known about Henry and Eleanor's son John Smithers, after 1881, when aged 16 he was living with his parents. The census notes that he is "deaf". 

Details of what is known about their other children is below:

  • Eleanor Mary Burrows nee Smithers

Eleanor Mary Smithers, daughter of Henry James Smithers married Frederick Burrows, son of Thomas Burrows on 5 December 1880 at St Martins in the Field, Westminster.

In 1881 the couple were living at 26 Waxwell Terrace, Lambeth and 28 year old Frederick was working as a lithographer. By 1891 the family were living at 13 Edith Villas, Edmonton and 38 year old Frederick Burrows was a lithographic printer. In 1901 they were living at 21 Cuta Cottages, Edmonton. 

The 1911 census records that the couple had 8 children, of which 6 survived, including:

  • Frederick William Burrows. Born 16 December 1882 Baptised 11 January 1883, daughter of Frederick and Eleanor Burrows of 21, Peabody Buildings, Drury Lane. Frederick was a lithograph printer. 
  • Emma Maud Mary Burrows. Born 1885 in Strand. Baptised 31 July 1887, daughter of Frederick and Eleanor Mary Burrows of 9 Fairfield Road, Edmonton. Frederick was a lithograph printer.
  • Daisy Louise Burrows.. Baptised 31 July 1887 in Edmonton, the same day as her elder sister.
  • Thomas Phillip Burrows. Born 1888 in Edmonton. Baptised 3 November 1891 at St James, Upper Edmonton, son of Frederick and Eleanor Mary Burrows of 23 Edith Villas, Rayham Road. Frederick was a lithograph printer. 
  • Charles Lionel Bernard Burrows. Born 3  July 1891. Baptised 3 November 1891 at St James, Upper Edmonton, the same day as brother Thomas.  
  • Eleanor May Burrows. Born 15 February 1897 in Edmonton. Baptised 30 March 1897 at St James, Upper Edmonton, daughter of Frederick and Eleanor Mary Burrows of 9 Brettenham Avenue. 

At the time the census was taken, the family were living at 78 Raynham Road, Upper Edmonton where 58 year old Frederick was an engine oiler in a floor cloth works. Their 28 year old son Frederick was a painter for a building firm as was their 24 year old daughter Daisy. Sons Thomas, aged 22 and daughter Eleanor, aged 14 were both employed on wirework at an aviators works.

Frederick and Eleanor's daughter Eleanor May Burrows died in 1917 aged 20 years old.   

In 1921 Frederick and Eleanor were still at 78, Raynham Road, Edmonton. Frederick, aged 65 was a engineers labourer for Lukes and Co, General engineers, but he was out of work. Eleanor, aged 69 was on home duties. Son Thomas Phillip Burrows was still living with them. He was 32 years old and a labourer for Monk and Co builders, but also out of work. 

Eleanor M Burrows died in 1922 aged 69 years (Reg Gen March 1922 Edmonton 3a 818). 

Frederick Burrows died in 1928 aged 71 years (Reg Gen March 1928 Edmonton 3a 719)

in 1911 Frederick and Eleanor's son Frederick William Burrows was still living with his parents, but aged 28 he was working as a house painter. He enlisted in the Army Service Corps on 5 May 1913. He was a 32 year old painter living at 78 Raynham Road, Edmonton. In 1921 Frederick was boarding with William Robertson and his family at 26, Hampden Road, Sale, Cheshire. He was a 38 year old house painter for Metropolitan Vickers Electric & Manufacturing Co. The census shows he was born in Covent Garden, London. Also boarding was Eleanor Burrows, aged 41, born Sale, Cheshire presumably his wife. In 1939 Frederick and Eleanor were living at 93, Harboro Road, Sale. Frederick was a painter and decorator and Eleanor was on unpaid domestic duties. Eleanor Burrows died in 1952. Frederick William Burrows of 115, Harboro Road, Sale died 11 April 1964. Probate was granted to Stanley Samuel Robertson, British railways clerk. 

Frederick and Eleanor's daughter Emma Maud Mary Burrows married her cousin, Henry Tilbury Smithers on 26 December 1903 at St James, Upper Edmonton. Upper Edmonton. Henry Tilbury Smithers was a 20 year old gas fitter, the son of William Tilbury Smithers and Louise White. William Tilbury Smithers was Eleanor Burrow's younger brother (see below).

The picture above was posted on by Ashwebninja. In 1911 Henry and Emma were living at 78 Raynham Road, Edmonton. Although this is the same address as Emma's parents, they are listed separately so this appears to have been a split address. Henry, aged 27 year old was a gas fitter. The census shows they had two children and a further two children were born after the census was taken

  • Ivy Lilian May Smithers. Born 21 February 1907 in Edmonton. Ivy married Edgar David Cowan on 7 September 1939 at St James's Church, Edmonton. Edgar was a 27 year old bus driver, son of Frank Cowan (deceased), engineer. At the time that the 1939 register was taken they were living  at 53 Raynham Road and Edgar was a trolley bus driver. Ivy's brother William was living with them. Fusilier Edgar David Cowan died on 2 December 1943 in Italy and was buried at Sangro River War Cemetery. Ivy Lilian May Cowan died on 23 January 1999 at St Ives Lodge, Chingford and was buried at Chingford Mount Cemetary. 
  • Daisy Francis Louisa Smithers. Born 13 February 1909. Baptised 10 April 1910 in Edmonton, daughter of Henry and "Maud" Smithers of 80 Raynham Road. Henry was a gas fitter. Daisy died 1913 in Edmonton. 
  • Heclar M E Smithers. Born 1912 in Edmonton. He died 1913 in Edmonton, aged 1 year old. 
  • William Frederick Tilbury Smithers. Born 3 April 1914. In 1939 he was living with his sister Ivy (see above) and he was a turret lathe setter operator!. He married Joan Alice May Bolden in 1941. Joan died on 28 October 1974. William died on 21 February 1990 in Harlow.  

In 1921 Henry and Emma were living at 53 Raynham Road, Edmonton. "Harry", aged 38, was a piper fitter for Thomas Glover & Co Engineers, Gas Meter Manufacturers. Emma, aged 36 and daughter Ivy. aged 14 were on home duties. Son William was 7 years old. Emma M M Smithers died in 1936 aged 51 years (Reg Gen Dec 1936 Edmonton 3a 848). The 1939 register shows Henry at 23 Aberdeen Road, Edmonton with Peter and Elizabeth Rodwell, but the 1939 electoral register still shows him at 53 Raynham Road with daughter Ivy, as yet unmarried, and son WilliamHe is still described as a gas fitter. Henry may have remarried in 1941 in Edmonton. His second wife was Frances Smith. Henry Tilbury Smithers died in 1965 in Westminster (Reg Gen September 1965 Westminster 5e 697). 

Frederick and Eleanor's daughter Daisy Louise Burrows married Herbert Anthony John Parke on 20 June 1915 at St John The Evangelist, Upper Edmonton. Herbert was a 26 year old soldier, the son of Herbert Anthony Parke, jeweller. Daisy was 28 years old. Both give their address as 78 Raynham Road, Edmonton. 

Daisy L Parke died in 1921 (Reg Gen June 1921 Edmonton 3a 532). Herbert remarried in 1923 in Sculcoates, Yorkshire. His second wife was Dora Thompson. In 1939 he was living with wife Dora in the Cottage, Chislehurst and he was a chaffeur/mechanic. Herbert Anthony John Parke of Virginia Cottage, Derringstone Hill, Barham, Kent died on 30 August 1958. Probate was granted to Dora Parke, widow. Dora Parke of 19, The Boulevard, Hedon, Humberside died on 22 March 1974. 

In 1911 and 1921 Frederick and Eleanor's son Thomas Phillip Burrows was living with his parents at 78, Raynham Road, Edmonton.. In 1921 he was 32 years old and a labourer for Monk and Co builders, but like his father, also out of work. He may have emigrated to Western Australia. In 1963 he was living at 350, William Street, Perth. He died on 12 July 1963 at Karrakatta, Nedlands City, Western Australia.   

In 1911 Frederick and Eleanor's son Charles Lionel Bernard Burrows was a driver with the military stationed in South Africa. World War 1 records show he was a gunner with the Royal Artillery. When the 1921 census was taken Charles was a 29 year old Police Constable for the Metropolitan Police Commission listed with 12 others at Notting Dale Police Station, Kensington. The Sergeant in charge of the station was James Smith, aged 32 from Arbroath.  He married Annie Edith Johnson on 24 November 1921 at St James Norland, Kensington. Charles Lionel Bernard Burrows, aged 30 was a police officer living at 51 Sirdar Road, W11. His father Frederick William Burrows was a retired lithographic printer. Annie, aged 21 gives the same address. She was the daughter of William Johnson, newsagent.

 In 1933 electoral register Charles Lionel Bernard Burrows is listed at 74, Whittington Road, Wood Green, with his wife "Annie Maud Burrows". Other researchers have suggested "our" Charles married Annie M Philpott in 1930 in Edmonton and the General Registrar records do show Charles L B Burrows married a Philpott (Reg Gen June 1930 Edmonton 3a 1814. In the 1939 register 

  • Charles L B Burrows. Born 3 July 1891. He is shown as married but is listed alone at 234 Gladstone Avenue, Wood Green. He was a police constable. 
  • Annie Edith Burrows cannot currently be traced, but on the 1939 electoral registers Annie Edith Burrows was living at 51 Sirdar Road, Norland, Kensington. Also listed is Thomas Douglas Leonard Green.  
  • Annie Maud Burrows. Born 28 February 1907 was living with her  parents Alfred H Philpott, sack repairer and his wife Maud at 36, Newton Green, Dunmow, She is shown as married and on unpaid domestic duties. The next three entries are closed. 

Had Charles divorced and remarried? Charles Lionel B Burrows died on 1 January 1972. Annie Edith Burrows died in 1980 in Thanet. Other researchers suggest that Annie Maud Burrows died on 28 December 2011 in London, which would have made her 104!!

  • Mary Ann Scott nee Smithers

On 23 October 1881, Henry and Eleanor's daughter Mary Ann Smithers married William James Scott at St Mary's Church, Somers Town. William, "a gas and hot water engineer", at 24 years old was three years younger than Mary. He was the son of William Scott, a deceased traveller. 

In 1891 Wm Jas Scott & Mary A Scott were living at 44, Bayham Street, St Pancreas where "Jas" Scott, aged 33 year old was a fitter. His wife Mary Ann was 36 years old. Three children are listed, but not their third son (see below).  William was a fitter. The couple are understood to have had five children in all;

  • William Tilbury Scott. Born 27 October 1882. Baptised 29 February 1888 at St Mary's the Virgin, Somers Town. William was a gas fitter from 29 Bayham Place, Camden Town, London. 
  • Albert Henry Scott. Born 27 January 1884 at 29 Bayham Place, Camden Town, London at St Mary's the Virgin, Somers Town. William was a gas fitter from 29 Bayham Place, Camden Town, London 
  • Charles Scott. Born 18 January 1888 at 29 Bayham Place, Camden Town, London
  • Frederick William Scott. Born 1890
  • Alice Maud Scott. Born 27 January 1893 in St Pancreas. Baptised 15 March 1893 at St Mary the Virgin, Somers Town.

William James Scott died in August 1893 aged 35 at 44 Bayham Street, St Pancras and was buried on 2 September 1893 at St Pancreas Parish Chapel.

In 1901 his widow Mary Ann Scott was living at 56 King Street, St Pancras. She was employed as a cleaner, her son William was a carriage cleaner and her son Albert a blacksmith. 

In 1911 Mary Ann Scott was living at 21 Werrington Street, aged 57 she was employed as an office cleaner. Albert and Alice Maud were still living with her.

In 1921 Mary Ann Scott, aged 67 was a cleaner for Mr Dearle, music seller. Her daughter, Alice Maud Scott, aged 23 was living with her. She was a packer for Mr Longuedale 

It is not clear where Mary Ann Scott was in 1939. It is possible that she was incapacitated and a patient  at Wandsworth Hospital.  

Mary Ann Scott died aged 88 and was buried on 2 March 1942 at Southwark. 

William James and Mary Ann Scott's son William Tilbury Scott married Rachel Laura Flemming in 1906. In 1911 the family were living at 21 Werrington Street, where William was a gardener for the Borough Council.  William and Rachel had four children:

  • Winifred Mary Scott. Born 20 December 1907 in St Pancras. Winifred qualified as a teacher. She never married. Winifred Mary Scott of 63, Walmington Fold, Woodside Park, N12 died on 25 December 1975.  
  • Eric William Scott. Born 1909 in St Pancras. Eric originally sailed for Australia on 31 March 1927 on the 'Beltana'. He died on 10 July 1992 in Armidale, New South Wales, Australia
  • Donald Henry Scott. Born 23 April 1915 in St Pancras. In 1939 Donald was a post office engineer living with his parents. Donald married Mary Ridley on 8 November 1941 in Pancras, Middx. In 1952 the were living at 79, Dollis Road, Finchley, N3. Donald died on 5 March 1985 in the Isle Of Wight. Mary Scott died on 27 September 2011 in Bedford.
  • David John Scott. Born 2 March 1924 in Pancras. David died on 28 January 2009 in Finchley, London

I have been told that in 1914 William and Rachel were living at 5 Elm Road, St Pancras and William was a pupil of Eugene Sandow, the famous strongman. William was a proficient gymnast and started his own gym classes at the Methodist Church he attended in Camden Town. William returned from WW1 and disillusioned by the experience, became a lay preacher. In 1921 William and Rachel were still living at 5, Elm Road, St Pancras. William, aged 38 was a stone mason for Finsbury Borough Council. Rachel, aged 38 was on home duties. Winifred was 13 years old, Eric was 12 and Donald was 6 years old. In 1939 William and Rachel were living at 63 Walmington Fold, Hendon where William was a municipal  storekeeper. Sons Donald H Scott, a post office engineer and David J Scott were still at home. The picture below of William and Rachel in 1939 was posted on by Tony Bond. 

William Tilbury Scott of 63 Walmington Fold, Finchley died on 3 May 1947 at Redhill County Hospital, Finchley. Probate was granted to his widow, Rachel Laura Scott. Rachel Laura Scott of 63 Walmington Fold died on 20 December 1960 in Hendon, Middlesex. Probate was granted to Winifred Mary Scott, spinster.

William James and Mary Ann Scott's son Albert Henry Scott enlisted in The Royal on 16 August 1902 He was 18 years and 6 months old and a printers labourer, but in 1911 in living with his mother at St Pancras and is a 'viceman' for a motor body builders. Albert had three children with Ethel Kate Sayer, who is described as his wife and adopts his surname, but I have been unable to trace their marriage.  

  • William Henry Scott. Born 5 May 1912 in Birmingham. Baptised 22 May 1912 at St Saviours, Saltley of  "Harry" and Ethel of 50 Reginald Road, smith. William married Jessie Black Thomson on 30 May 1936 in St Saviour's, Yardley, In 1939 they were living at 51, Kenwood Road and William was a motor body builder. Jessie was on unpaid domestic duties. William Henry Scott of 51, Kenwood Road died on 3 August 1991. Jessie Black Scott died in 1996 aged 95 years old. 
  • Ethel Mary Scott. Born 25 December 1913 in Birmingham. Ethel married Colin Smith on 7 October 1939 at St Margaret's, Birmingham.  Ethel died on 1 July 1985 in Tower Road, Sutton Coldfield. Colin died on 16 June 1987 in Birmingham. 
  • Ivy Lilian Scott. Born 25 August 1916 in Birmingham. Baptised 12 September 1916 at St Saviour, Saltley, the daughter of Albert Henry Scott and "Ethel Maud" of 48 Reginald Road, fitter. 

In 1921 Albert and Ethel M Scott were living at 48, Reginald Road, Birmingham. Albert, aged 38 was an experimental fitter for a motor engine and cycles manufacturer, working for F E Baker Ltd in Kings Norton.  Ethel was 41 years old and on home duties. Their children were 9, 7 and 4 and the eldest two were at school whole time. Albert's granddaughter Sandra Whitmore writes on that her grandfather was a very clever man! He made the first Norton Motorbike. And also a very good singer who sang with Dame Clara Butt at the Royal Albert Hall in front of the old King and Queen!  Albert H Scott died aged 54 on 12 August 1937 at Reginald Road, Birmingham. This photograph of Albert was posted on by Tony Bond.

In 1939 Albert's widow Ethel K Scott was still living at 48 Reginald Road, but Albert . Ethel is shown as married, although she had been widowed and was a housewife. Daughters Ethel was a canteen worker and Ivy was a leather machinist. Ethel later remarried and became Ethel Sutcliffe. 

Nothing more is known about William James and Mary Ann Scott's son Charles Scott after his baptism in 1888 in Somers Town. 

William James and Mary Ann Scott's son Frederick William Scott died at 3 years old and was buried on 23 November 1893 at Thanington, Kent.

William James and Mary Ann Scott's daughter Alice Maud Scott married Herbert Packman on 21 August 1921 at St Thomas, Camden Town, London.  Herbert was a 26 year old police constable of Elm Road, Camden Town, the son of Edward George Packman, general labourer.  Alice was 28 years old, a packer, also from 5 Elm Road, Camden Town. 

In 1939 they are living at 20 Patshull Road, NW5 and Herbert is a Metropolitan police constable. 

Alice Maud Packman of 20 Patshull Road, London, NW5 died on 4 February 1965. Probate was granted to Herbert Packman, retired commissionaire. Herbert Packman died in 1967 in St Pancras (Reg Gen March 1967 St Marylebone 5d 876).

  • Emily Anne Dickens nee Smithers

Henry and Eleanor's daughter Emily Anne Smithers married Samuel Dickens on 23 April 1878 at St Pauls, Covent Garden. Samuel was a 23 year old joiner from Manchester, the son of Thomas Dickens, bricklayer. 

In 1881 Samuel and Emily were living at 11, Mason Street, Sale, Cheshire, where 26 year old Samuel was a carpenter. In 1891 they were living at 4 Mason Street, Sale, Cheshire. 

Samuel and Emily had seven children:

  • Henry William Dickens. Born 1879 in Sale. Baptised 1 May 1884 at St Martins, Ashton on Mersey, Cheshire.
  • Annie Eleanor Dickens. Born 1880 in Sale. Baptised 1 May 1884 at St Martin, Ashton upon Mersey.
  • Frederick Charles Dickens. Born 17 June 1884 in Sale. Baptised on 21 May 1885 at St Martin, Ashton upon Mersey.
  • Frank Dickens. Born 1887 in Sale.
  • Jane Dickens. Born 1889 in Sale. 
  • Harry Dickens. Born 22 October 1892 in Sale. 
  • Mary Edith Emma Dickens. Born 27 January 1898 in Sale, Cheshire.

In 1901 they were living at 1 Eliza Street, Sale. By 1911 the family were living at 6 St John's Street, Sale. Only Harry and Mary Edith were still living at home. 

Samuel Dickens died aged 57 and was buried on 29 July 1912 in Manchester.  

In 1921 Emily Anne Dickens, a 65 year old widow on household duties was living at Ashton Lane, Ashton upon Mersey. Her son "Harry", aged 28 was living with her. he had been a joiner for Dean Ashton on Mersey before the war, but was demobbed in January 1920 and had been out of work since.  Her daughter Mary Edith Emma Dickens, aged 23  was also living with her. She was a tailoress for C.W.S tailoring department, Bromley Street, Broughton. . 

Emily Anne Dickens died in 1936 aged 80 years old (Reg Gen Dec 1936 Bucklow 8a 247)

Samuel and Emily's son William Henry Dickens married Elizabeth Jane Nash in 1904 at St Annes, Sale. In 1911 they were living with Elizabeth's grandmother Rebecca Nash at Bageley Road, Sale. William was a 31 year old stationary engine driver. Elizabeth, aged 25 was a housekeeper. The eldest of their three children had been born

  • Eleanor Rebecca Dickens. Born 8 September 1904 in Sale, Cheshire. Eleanor married David Rose in 1930 in Bucklow. In 1939 they were living at 199, Baguley Road, Sale where David was an engineering accountant. They had one daughter. David Rose died on 6 May 1993. Eleanor Rebecca Rose of 4, Carlyn Avenue, Sale died on 29 October 1994.    
  • William Henry Dickens. Born 5 January 1910 in Sale, Cheshire. Baptised 23 March 1910 at St Anne's, Sale.  William married Edith Beanland in 1938 in Bucklow. In 1939 they were living at 108, Daw Road, Sale and William was a rate collector for the local government. Edith Dickens died in 2000, aged 93 years old. 
  • Norah Mary Dickens. Born 9 September 1911. Baptised 1 November 1911 in Sale. Nora never married. Nora Mary Dickens of 199, Northendon, Sale died on 3 May 1969. She was outlived bu her mother. 

In 1921 they were still living at 6 Bageley Road with Elizabeth's now 92 year old grandmother. William, aged 42 was a stationary engine driver for the Altrincham Electrical Supply Company. Elizabeth was 39 years old. Daughter Eleanor, aged 16 was a clerk at Greens Chocolate manufacturers. William was 11 and Norah 9 years old. William Henry Dickens died in 1927 and was buried on 28 May 1927 in Manchester. In 1939 Elizabeth was living at 199, Northendon Road, Sale. She is shown as married and on domestic duties. Her daughter Norah was living with her and was an insurance clerk. Elizabeth Jane Dickens died on 30 June 1969 in Manchester and was buried on 3 July 1969.   

In 1911 Samuel and Annie's daughter (Annie) Eleanor Dickens, aged 30 was a servant living with William Shaw, a building contractor and his wife at Little Dean, Cecil Avenue, Ashton upon Mersey. I can find no trace of Annie in the 1921 census or the 1939 register at the present time. Annie Eleanor Dickens may have died on 31 January 1967 in Bucklow, Cheshire.    

Samuel and Annie's son Frederick Charles Dickens married Janet Knowles on 18 September 1909 at the Wesleyan Chapel, Sale. In 1911 they were living at Orchard Place, Off School Road, Sale. Alfred Knowles, aged 21, presumably Janet's brother was boarding with them. In 1915 Frederick enlisted in the Royal Engineers. In 1921 they were living in Dumber Lane, Ashton upon Mersey, Frederick, aged 37 was a foreman driver for A Cordingley, builder. Janet was 37 years old and on home duties, They had one son 

  • Charles Samuel Dickens. Born 3 March 1912. Charles married Cienwen Jones in 1937. They had three children. They emigrated to Australia, leaving London on 20 June 1951 on the "Cheshire", Charles was a 39 year old carpenter. In 1967 they were living at Cranbourne Road, Hampton Park, Bruce, Victoria. Charles Samuel Dickens died on 20 October 1972 in Dandenong, Victoria. He was buried in Springvale Botanical Cemetary. Ceinwen died on 22 September 1988. She was also buried in Springvale. 

In 1939 Frederick and Janet were living at 242 Glebelands Road and Frederick was a joiner and builder working on his own account. His wife was on unpaid domestic duties. Their son Charles was also a joiner and carpenter working on his own account. His wife Cienwen was on unpaid domestic duties. Frederick's brother Harry, also a joiner and building on his own account was living with them (see below). Frederick Charles Dickens of 242 Glebelands Road, Ashton on Mersey, Sale died on 18 December 1939. Probate was granted to his widow Janet. Janet died in 1952 in Manchester. 

In 1911 Samuel and Annie's son Frank Dickens was boarding with Duncan Lamont and his wife at 59 Perseverance Street, Sale. Frank was a fitter in electrical engineering. Frank Dickens married Elizabeth Ann Hickson that same year. In 1921 they were living at 25, Scaychan, Sale, Cheshire. Frank, aged 34, was a tool fitter for Metropolitan Vickers Engineering Company. Trafford Park. Elizabeth, aged 35 was on home duties. They had two sons;

  • Jack Egerton Dickens. Baptised 26 February 1913 at Sale, Cheshire. Jack E Dickens married  Marguerite Eleanor Moody in 1946 (Reg Gen Sept 1946 Salisbury 7c 1379)Jack Egerton Dickens of 24, Lydgate Road, Salem, Cheshire died on 7 August 1955 in Bucklow.  Probate was granted to Marguerite Eleanor Dickens, widow. Marguerite Eleanor Dickens died in 2004 in South Somerset. 
  • Thomas Kenneth Dickens. Born 1914 in Bucklow, Cheshire. Thomas Kenneth Dickens of 22 Wynthenshawe Road, Sale died on 3 December 1987.  

I can find no trace of Frank and Elizabeth in 1939 at the present time. Frank Dickens of 12 Claremont Road, Sale, Cheshire died on 8 February 1954 at 59a Shaw Heath, Stockport. Probate was granted to his widow, Elizabeth Ann Dickens. Elizabeth Ann Dickens died in 1977 in Manchester, aged 91 years old. 

In 1911 Samuel and Annie's daughter Jane Dickens, aged 21 was a domestic servant, living and working for Edward James Thompson, a 52 year old architect, surveyor and valuer at Glenric, Marsley Road, Brooklands. I can find no trace of her in 1921 or 1939. It is possible that she never married and Jane Dickens died in 1957 in Chesterfield (Reg Gen Sept 1957 Chesterfield 3a 105).

In 1921 Samuel and Annie's son Harry Dickens was living with his widowed mother and was out of work since being demobbed in January 1920. He had previously been a joiner for Dean Ashton on Mersey. Harry married Hylda York on 21 September 1927 at St Anne's Church, Sale. Harry was a 36 year old joiner and builder. Hylda was 28 years old, the daughter of Henry John York, tailor. In 1939 Harry was living with his brother Frederick at 242 Glebelands, Sale. He was a joiner and builder working on his own account. He is shown as married, but Hylda is not listed and I can find no trace of her. Harry Dickens of 74 Carrington Lane, Ashton on Mersey, Sale died on 15 April 1962.  Probate was granted to Hylda Dickens,  his widow.  Hylda Dickens of Flat 36, Hope Road, Sale died on 19 October 1986.

In 1921 Samuel and Annie's daughter Mary Edith Emma Dickens, now 23, she was a tailoress for C.W.S tailoring department, Bromley Street, Broughton. Mary married John Richard Bowers in 1931. In 1939 John and Mary were living at  179, Arely Grove, Stockport. John was a "Ple Street Works Stock Clearer". They had a school age daughter. 

  • Rosemary Bowers. Born 21 January 1932 

Mary Edith Emma Bowers died on 6 November 1965 in Manchester. she was buried on 9 November 1965 at Sale Cemetary. John Richard Bowers died on 2 February 1976 in Manchester. 

  • William Tilbury Smithers and Louisa White

Henry and Eleanor's son William Tilbury Smithers married Louisa White on 30 January 1876 at St Giles in the Field, London. William was 18 years old, a hot water fitter. Louisa was 18 years old, the daughter of  John White, bootmaker. 

However in 1881 he was visiting his uncle George Thomas Pyne's widow, Annie Jane Swanson (see below). He was a 23 year old gas fitter. He is shown as married, but Louisa is not listed. Louisa may have been staying with her parents at 15, Lambs Conduit Passage, Holborn. Aged 23, she is named as "Louisa White", but shown as married. Also listed is "Ellen White", aged 4 who I suspect is William and Louisa's daughter. 

I have been able to trace seven of William and Louisa's children:

  • Eleanor Emily Smithers. Born 1876 in St Giles, London. Baptised 24 December 1876 at St Paul, Covent Garden,  .
  • Henry Tilbury Smithers. Born 23 May 1883 in Eastbourne, Sussex.
  • Albert Edward Smithers. Born 14 August 1884 in Eastbourne, Sussex.
  • Alfred James Smithers. Born 14 December 1885 in St Pancras.
  • Edwin Philip Smithers. Born 1888 in Holborn
  • Ann Daisy Smithers. Born 1897 in Newington
  • Lily May Smithers. Born 1900 in Fulham. Died 1900 in Fulham

In 1891 the family were living at 53 King Street, Walthamstow. William was a gas fitter. There eldest five children are all listed. Louisa's mother Sarah White, a 69 year old widow "living on her own means" was living with them.

In 1901 William and Louisa were living at 29 Querrin Street, Fulham. William, aged 43 was a gas and hot water fitter. Sons Henry, aged 17 and Albert, aged 16 were gas fitters assistants. Alfred, aged 15, was a greengrocers assistant. Edwin was 13 and Ann was 3 years old.  

In 1911 they were living at 18 Wheatsheaf Terrace, Fulham. William, aged 53 was a gas fitter in Plumstead. Louisa was 54 years old. They had been married 35 years and had 9 children, of which 5 were still living. Son Alfred James, was a 25 year old gas fitter. Daughter Ann was a 13 year old scholar. 

In 1921 William and Louisa were still at 18, Wheatsheaf Terrace, but all the children had left home. William, aged 63 was a gas fitter for the Gas, Light and Coal Company, Louisa, aged 63 was at home. 

Louisa Smithers died in 1927 in Fulham, aged 70 years. 

William Tilbury Smithers died aged 79 and was buried at St Mary's, Stoke D' Abernon on 24 March 1937.

William and Louisa's daughter Eleanor Emily Smithers married John James Sanders on 8 August 1894 at St Mary's, Walthamstow. In 1911 they were living at 69 Oakley Road, Walthamstow where 39 year old John was a general labourer for a bricklayer. John and Eleanor had six children:

  • Cyril John James Sanders. Born 3 February 1901. Baptised 24 February 1901 at St James, Walthamstow. Cyril married Edith Eva Evelyn Koellner on 11 August 1929 in Stanmore, Sydney, NSW. It is not clear when he emigrated. In 1933 they were living at Leichardt, Dalley, New South Wales. They are believed to have had four children. Cyril John James Sanders died on 5 June 1964 in Brisbane. He was buried at Mount Gravatt, Brisbane City, Edith Eva Evelyn Sanders died on 1 February 1995 in Sydney.
  • Charles Henry Sanders. Born 22 June 1903. Baptised 6 September 1903 at St James,  Walthamstow. Charles Henry Sanders of 59, Stanhope Gardens, London died on 6 November 1979. 
  • William Edward Sanders. Born 12 August 1905. Baptised 30 August 1905 at St James, Walthamstow. William married Ivy Matilda Williams on 19 December 1931 at St Mary the Virgin, Walthamstow. . 
  • Ethel May Sanders. Born 23 November 1907. Baptised 18 December 1907 at St James, Walthamstow.  Ethel died aged 14 and was buried on 1 August 1922 at Queens Road Cemetery, Waltham Forest. 
  • Alfred Herbert Sanders. Born 25 March 1910. Baptised 10 April 1910 at St James, Walthamstow. Alfred may have emigrated to New Zealand where he appears in the electoral register at 52, York Street, Hutt, Wellington in 1928
  • Gladys Hilda Sanders. Born 14 March 1912. Baptised 29 March 1912 at St James, Walthamstow.  Gladys married William George Bailey in 1935. In 1939 they were living at 307 Church Road, Leyton.  William died in 1986. Gladys died in 1989 in Waltham Forest. 

I can find no trace of John and Eleanor in the 1921 census at the present time.  John James Sanders may have died aged 49 and was buried at Queens Road Cemetary, Waltham Forest on 11 May 1922, Nothing more is known about Eleanor Emily Sanders. 

William and Louisa's son Henry Tilbury Smithers married his cousin Emma Maud Mary Burrows on 26 December 1903 in Upper Edmonton. Their lives are detailed above.

William and Louisa's son Albert Edward Smithers was admitted to Manchester Street School, Camden on 16 July 1889. He married Edith Annie Norrington on 5 December 1904 at St Peters, Fulham. Albert was a 20 year old "hot water fitter", son of William Tilbury Smithers, also a "hot water fitter". Edith was a 20 year old spinster, daughter of Alfred Norrington, baker. 

Albert and Edith had one son 

  • Edwin Alfred Smithers. Born 12 June 1905. Edwin married Dorine Mary Spensley in 1925 in Fulham. Dorine died on 14 August 1932, aged just 28 years old and Edwin died in 1938 aged 32 years.

In 1911 Albert and Edith were living at 29 James Street, Mile End where Albert was a "gas fitter". Private Albert Edward Smithers of the 4th Battalion London Regiment was killed in action on 16 June 1915. He was buried at the Menin Gate, Ypres, France and Flanders. In 1921 Edith Annie Smithers, a 35 year old domestic, was living at 91, Bishops Road, Fulham, with her sister, Louisa Ada Farrant, a 31 year old widow working as a boot repairer on her own account. Her son Edwin Alfred Smithers was a 15 year old boot repairer working for his aunt.  In 1939 Edith was living alone at 91, Bishops Road, Fulham.  Edith never remarried and Edith Annie Smithers of St Vincent's Home, 49 Queen Caroline Street, London, W6 died on 14 February 1974. 

William and Louisa's son Alfred James Smithers had earlier been admitted to Manchester Street School, Camden on 24 June 1889. Alfred married Kate Alethea Manning in 1911 in Fulham. In 1919 they were living at 21, Ashcombe Street, Sands End West, Finsbury and Fulham. In 1921 they were living at 18, Narborough Street, Fulham, Alfred, aged 35 was a gas fitter, for the gas, coal and coke company. His wife was 34 years old. They had three children 

  • Charles William Smithers. Born 26 November 1911 in Wandsworth. Charles married Doris M Moore in 1939 in Wandsworth. Later that year they were living in 7, Eglantine Road, Wandsworth and Charles was an accounting clerk. Doris was on unpaid domestic duties. Charles William Smithers died in 1973 in Wandsworth. Doris died on 1 June 2000
  • Alfred L Smithers. Born 16 December 1912 in Fulham. 
  • Leslie Ernest Smithers. Born 10 September 1917. Baptised 4 November 1917 at St Matthew, Fulham. Leslie married Winifred Margaret Stone in 1941. Leslie died on 11 January 1998

In 1939 they were living at 8 Daphne Street, Wandsworth and both father and sons Alfred and Leslie were gas fitters. Alfred James Smithers of 8 Daphne Street, Wandsworth died on 8 August 1952 at St James Hospital, Balham. Administration of his estate was granted to Kate Alethea Smithers his widow. His estate was valued at £714. 18s. 10d. Kate A Smithers died in 1965 in Wandsworth.

Nothing more is known about William and Louisa's son Edwin Philip Smithers after 1901. It may be that he died that year. a record of the death of Edwin Philip Smithers, aged 13 in St George, Hanover Square has been located.   

Finally William and Louisa's daughter Ann Daisy Smithers married John George Dixey on 8 March 1919 in Fulham.  John had been married previously, to Florence May Stevens on 8 May 1913 in Roehampton. Florence had a child born out of wedlock 

  • Doris Marjorie Dixey Stevens. Born 18 June 1908 in Queen Charlotte;s Hospital. Doris was baptised on 25 June 1908 at St Mark's Marylebone (Queen Charlotte's Hospital).  Doris M Dixey married Albert James Edwin Tucker on 7 June 1931 at St Peter's, Hammersmith. Albert was a 28 year old chef, son of James Tucker, unknown. Doris was 22 years old, daughter of John Dixey, publican.  In 1939 they were living at 15, Cloudesley Square, Islington where Albert was a shack barman (cooked meats) and his wife was on unpaid domestic duties. They had two children. Albert died on 11 April 1973 in Southampton General Hospital. Doris died in 1984 in Southampton.  

and they had two children after they married, 

  • Jessie Florence Clarice Dixey. Born 31 May 1913 in Kingston. Jessie married George Charles Moore on 20 March 1937 at St Barnabus Church, South Kennington. George was a 29 year old photographer, son of Charles Reginald Moore, hall porter. Jessie was 23 years old. In 1939 Jessie was one of 6 people listed at Sunningdale, Barnstaple, Devon. She is shown as married and on unpaid domestic duties. The householder appears to be Frank J Goss, a joiner and charge hand and two of the occupants are his immediate family. Two other entries are closed. Jessie died in 1999 in Bromley. 
  • Edwin John Dixey. Born 29 July 1914 in Kingston. Edwin married Winifred E Pritchard in 1944 in Folkestone. Edwin John Dixey died in 1981 in Dover. 

Florence May Dixey died on 2 May 1915 at West London Hospital and was buried on 6 May 1915 at Putney Vale Cemetary. John and Ann then went on to have five more children;

  • Olive Louisa Dixey. Born 5 January 1921 in Wandsworth. Olive married John Davis Herity on 9 September 1942 in Stoke D'Abernon. John was Canadian. In 1945 Olive was living with her parents at The Plough Inn. It is believed that John had returned to Canada and Olive followed in 1946, In 1962 they were living at Rosetown; Biggar, Saskatchewan, Canada. They had three children. John Davis Herity died on 15 February 1993 and was buried at Napinka, Manitoba, Edmonton. Olive died on 1 November 1996 in Biggar, Saskatchewan, Canada. 
  • Rose Marie Dixey. Born 1926 in Surrey. Rose married John Rowland Weller on 13 July 1949. in Stoke D'Abernon. John Rowland Weller of Dunley Hill Farm, Ranmore Common, Dorking died on 9 July 1990. Rose Weller of Ranmore died on 4 February 2009
  • Ida Sybil Dixey. Born 13 January 1928 in Epsom. Ida married Wallace Arthur Ingram in 1951. It was Wallace's second marriage. They had four children. Wallace died in 1991. Ida died on 22 August 2004 in Leatherhead. 
  • Kathleen Elsie Dixey. Born 22 January 1932 in Epsom.  Kathleen married Richard G Smith in 1959. Kathleen died on 20 June 2012 in Saint-Doulchard, Cher, France. 
  • Dinah A Dixey. Born 1936 in Surrey. Dinah married John W Michie in 1959

In 1921 John and Ann were living at 34 High Street, Roehampton. George, aged 32 was a greengrocer operating from 15, High Street, Roehampton. Ann was 25 years old. Doris, aged 15. Jessie, aged 8 and Edwin, aged 6 were all scholars whole time. Interestingly their parentage is described as "both alive"! Their daughter Olive was 5 months old.  In 1939 John and Ann were living at The Plough Inn, Station Road, Cobham. Daughter Kathleen remained at home. The Plough Inn is pictured below

John George Dixey of The Plough Shop, Station Road, D'Abernon died on 8 February 1957 in St Thomas Hospital, Hambledon. Probate was granted to his widow Ann Daisy Dixey, widow and Rowland Weller, motor engineer. Ann Daisy Dixey of The Plough Shop, Station Road, D'Abernon, Surrey died on 19 December 1957. Probate was granted to Richard Dixie, lorry driver and Lilian Ritchie, married woman. 

  • Phillip James Smithers and Jeanette Grace Baillie

Henry And Eleanor's son Phillip James Smithers married Jeanette Grace Baillie on 9 November 1889 in All Saints, South Lambeth. Phillip was a 22 year old gas fitter. Jeanette was 21 years old, the daughter of Thomas Baillie, engineer. 

In 1891 the family was living at 48 Chesson Road, Fulham. 25 year Phillip was a gas fitter. In 1901 they were living at 7 Crab Tree Lane, Fulham. In 1911 they were at 32 Leander Road, Thornton Heath. Phillip had been a gas engineer throughout

Phillip and Jeanette had one son Phillip Henry Smithers who was born 20 August 1890 and by 1911 was a clerk working for the gas company.

In 1921 they were living at 25, Weir Road, Chertsey. Phillip. aged 53 was a gas engineer for the Gas light and Coal Company. Jeanette was 50 years old and on home work.   Percival Edward Kirk, aged 55, a registrar of marriage and his wife, aged 58, homework were visiting them at the time. William Dickericks, aged 25, a gas engineer for the Gas light and Coal company and his wife Alice Ellen Dickericks, aged 25 a saleswoman for Messrs Ross & Company, blouse manufacturers, were boarding with them.  

Phillip James Smithers of Hillcrest, Valebridge, Burgess Hill died on 29 December 1933 at Royal Sussex County Hospital, Brighton. He was buried on 3 January 1934 in St Andrews, Burgess Hill. Probate was granted to his son Phillip Henry Smithers, engineer. His effects were worth £1,220.

In 1939 Jeanette was living with her son Phillip at "Foxdene Lodge", Churchdown, Gloucester. Jeanette Grace Smithers of 27, Layland Road, Burgess Hill died aged 79 years old and was buried on 29 November 1948 in St Andrews, Burgess Hill. 

Phillip and Jeanette's son Phillip Henry Smithers married Ida Emma Parsons. To date I have been unable to trace their marriage. They had five children. 

  • Jeanette Margaret Smithers. Born 27 December 1916 in Basingstoke. Jeanette married Geoffrey Thomas Atkins. In 1939 they were living with Jeanette's parents at "Foxdene Lodge". Geoffrey was an aircraft electrical tester. Geoffrey Thomas Adams of 34, Gilbert Road, Cambridge died on 10 March 1981. Jeanette Margaret Atkins died on 16 January 2006, aged 90 years. 
  •  Geoffrey Phillip Smithers. Born 1918
  • Joyce Alison P Smithers. Born 25 May 1921. Joyce Alison P Smithers died in October 2001 aged 80 at Canterbury. 
  • Bernard Charles Smithers. Born 11 November 1925 in Buenos Aires, Argentina. He was resident in New York when he was drafted in WWII (see below). He was employed by Bell Aircraft. Bernard married Gwynedd E Colwill in 1955. Bernard Charles Smithers of 173, Leckhampton Road, Cheltenham died on 20 December 1972. 
  • Beryl Evelyn Smithers. Born 11 June 1927 in Burgess Hill, Sussex. Beryl married Ernest E Kingsman in 1951 in Bristol. Beryl Evelyn Kingsman died in 2003 in Kent.

On 30 March 1926 Phillip, Ida and their five children arrive back in the UK from Argentina. In 1927 Ida and her children sailed for South America, presumably to join her husband. On  30 September 1931 Phillip, Ida and their five children again arrive back in the UK from Argentina. They give their address as 47, Victoria Street, London. Phillip is an engineer. In 1939 they were living at "Foxdene Lodge", Churchdown, Gloucester. Phillip was an A.I.D. for the Air Ministry. On 24 April 1941 Phillip Henry Smithers, aged 50, a government official sailed from Bristol to Vermont, USA.. He was an aircraft inspector. His wife and two younger children appear to have joined him arriving on 2 September 1941. On 17 September 1941 the family arrived in Canada.  In 1945 Phillip, Ida and Beryl arrived back in the UK from the USA. In 13 May 1949, Phillip arrived in Montreal, Quebec on the Ringsted. He gives his occupation as a government officer. His last address was Beardsden, Nr Glasgow, Scotland. Phillip Henry Smithers of 154, Tankerton Road, Tankerton, Kent died on 19 January 1962 at Nunnery Fields Hospital. Probate was granted to Ida Emma Smithers, widow. Ida Emma Smithers of 34, Gilbert Road, Cambridge died on 24 October 1968 at Addenbrookes Hospital. Administration was granted to Jeanette Margaret Atkins, married woman. 

Susannah Turner nee Pyne

I can find no trace of daughter Susannah's baptism.  

In 1841 Susannah Pine was 8 years old and was living with her mother at Walworth Gardens, St Mary's Newington, Surrey

In 1851 Susanna Pyne was living with her mother and possible step father George William Prouse at 3 Elizabeth Place "below ground".  She was 19 years old "a servant without situation".

On 29 May 1858, 26 year old Susannah Maria Pyne, daughter of Thomas Pyne, butcher, married 25 year old Thomas Turner, police constable, son of John Turner, innkeeper at St John's Clerkenwell. Both give their address as 81, St John Street. 

I would have been tempted to dismiss this as not being the marriage of the daughter of Eleanor Pyne and the sister of George Thomas Pyne, but the age is correct and there is the connection between her sister Eleanor and "our" Pyne family (above), which seems to confirm that the girls' father was a butcher. It is not clear however where the "Maria" came from!!

In 1871 the family were living at 27 Victoria Crescent, Newport, Wales where 38 year old Thomas was a police constable. The census confirms that Susannah was born in 1833 in Middlesex, London. (Marylebone used to be in Middlesex). The couple had six children, the youngest five of which are still living at home. 

  • Thomas Pyne Turner. Born 23 November 1858. Baptised 2 January 1859 at St Botolph, Aldersgate. Their address was 5 Laudersgate Buildings, and Thomas was a Police Constable. 
  • Susannah Turner. Born 1861 in London
  • Sarah Lily Turner. Born 23 November 1862. Baptised 11 January 1863 at St Botolph, Aldersgate. Their address was 14 Cross Keys Square, and Thomas was a police officer. 
  • Eleanor Ann Turner. Born 1865 in Newport. Baptised 15 March 1865 at St Pauls, Newport. Their address was 24 Bailey Street and Thomas was a police officer. 
  • John Arthur Stormes Turner. Born 1867 in Newport. Baptised 27 March 1867 at St Pauls, Newport. Their address is still 24 Bailey Street and Thomas was a police officer.
  • William James Turner. Born 1869 in Newport. Baptised 10 March 1869 at St Pauls, Newport. their  address is Bailey Street and Thomas was a police officer. 
  • Samuel Henry Llewellyn Turner.  Born 21 August 1872. Baptised 29 September 1872 in St Paul,  Newport. Their address was 27 Victoria Crescent and Thomas was a police officer. 
  • Rose Miriam Florence Turner. Baptised 20 August 1876 in Newport, their address was 27, Victoria Crescent and father Thomas was a police constable.

Thomas Turner of St Woollos, Newport died aged 43 years old and was buried on 12 November 1875 (prior to the birth of his youngest daughter?) at St Woolos, Newport. 

Susannah Maria Turner of St Marks died aged 48 and was buried on 30 July 1880 at St Woolos, Monmouthshire. 

Thomas and Susannah's son Thomas Pyne Turner married Sarah Boundy on 25 December 1882 at Llantarnam, Monmouthshire. Thomas was a 24 year old warehouseman, son of Thomas Turner, police constable. Sarah was 28 years old, the daughter of James Boundy, cordwainer.  

In 1891 they were living at 35, Grasmere Street, South Everton, Lancashire where Thomas was a cotton merchants porter.  They had four children: 

  • Florence Gertrude Turner.  Baptised 28 December 1883 at St George, Everton. Florence married Thomas Pashby Majer on 30 October 1911 at Holt Trinity, Walton Breck, Liverpool. Thomas was a 29 year old engineer, the son of Robert Pashby Majer, architect. I can find no trace of them in 1921, Florence appears to have died by 1939 and Thomas P Majer, a director and managing engineer for heating, ventilating sheet metal and plate maker was living at 37, Westmeath Avenue, Leicester with her sister in law Mabel Winifred Acklin. They later married Thomas Pashby Majer of 5, Haymans Green, Liverpool died on 3 January 1950 at The Hospital, Rainhill, Lancashire. Probate was granted to Mabel Winifred Majer, widow!!
  • Mabel Winifred Turner. Born 18 September 1885. Baptised 11 October 1885 at St George, Everton. Mabel married Frederick Percy Acklin on 30 September 1912 in Liverpool. In 1925 they were living at 1, Eskburn Road, Liverpool. They had one son. In 1939 Mabel W Acklin was living with her brother in law Thomas P Majer at 37, Westmeath Avenue, Leicester. She is shown as married. Frederick Percy Acklin died on 26 February 1945 in Liverpool. Thomas and Mabel later married. 
  • Thomas Harold Boundy Turner. Baptised 23 September 1888 at St George, Everton. 
  • Clifford James Turner. Born 8 June 1897. Baptised 18 July 1897 at St Saviour, Everton. In 1921 Clifford was still living with his parents and aged 24, was a timber merchants salesman for Leslie Cowan and Co. Clifford married Margaret Mason on 10 June 1930 at Holy Trinity, Walton Breck. Clifford was a 33 year old timber merchant. Margaret was 29 years old, daughter of Edward Mason, warehouseman.  They had one son. In 1939 they were living at 5, Castlewaite Road, Liverpool. Clifford was a director and salesman in the timber trade. Margaret was on unpaid domestic duties. Their son was at school. Clifford James Turner of 5, Haymans Green, West Derby died on 10 June 1968 aged 77  

In 1901 Thomas and Sarah were still at 35, Grasmere Street and Thomas was working at a leather merchants warehouse. Thomas's brother John A Turner, aged 34, single, a leather merchants warehouseman is living with them. In 1911 they were still at 35, Grasmere Street. Thomas was a warehouseman for a "hide leather and tanning materials merchant". In 1921 Thomas and Sarah were at 17, St Ambrose Grove, Anfield, Walton on the Hill, Lancashire. Thomas Pyne Turner, aged 62 was a hide leather dealers warehouseman for George Angus and Co Ltd. Sarah, aged 62 was on home duties. Son Clifford James Turner aged 24, was a timber merchants salesman for Leslie Cowan and Co. Catherine Fraser, aged 56, widow on home duties was boarding with them. Thomas Pyne Turner, warehouseman, aged 66, of 85, Richmond Park, Liverpool was buried on 26 September 1925. Sarah Turner of 85, Richmond Park died aged 81 and was buried on 27 August 1934 in Merseyside. 

Nothing more is known about Thomas and Susannah's daughter Susanna Turner after 1871 when she was  10 year old scholar.

Nothing more is known about Thomas and Susannah's daughter Sarah Lily Turner after 1871 when she was an 8 year old scholar. 

Thomas and Susannah's daughter Eleanor Annie Turner married John Thomas Flawn on 13 August 1900 in New Groombridge, East Sussex. John Thomas Flawn was a 28 year old journeyman, son of John Flawn, engineer. Eleanor was 34  years old, the son of Thomas Turner, police constable. The witnesses included Rosa Miriam Florence Turner, Eleanor's sister. 

In 1901 John and Eleanor were living at Groombridge, Withyham. John, aged 28, was a journeyman baker. His wife was 35 years old. Eleanor's sister, Rosa, aged 24 and  domestic nurse was living with them. In 1911 they were living at 54 Coniston Rd, Addiscombe, Croydon.  John, aged 39 was an "agent" for an insurance company. Eleanor was 46 years old, They had one son, now a 10 year old scholar. 

  • John Victor Bernard Flawn. Born 5 March 1903 in Highworth. John married Muriel Milward Webb in 1958 in Worthing. John Victor B Flawn died in 1985 in Worthing. Muriel may have emigrated to Australia where she died in Lower Templestone, Victoria on 14 September 2000.
In 1921 John and Eleanor were living at 11, Stretton Road, Croydon. John, aged 49 was an insurance agent for the Prudential Assurance Company. Eleanor, aged 56 was on home duties. Their son John was 18 years old and a telegraph instrument worker for Creed and Co Ltd. Jane Blything, a 50 year old mothers help was boarding with them. In 1939 they were living at Molen, Godstone Park and John is described as a "retired pensioner". Eleanor is described as wife (invalid). Eleanor Ann Flawn died in 1945 aged 82 years old. John Thomas Flawn of 1, Godstone Road, Bletchingley, Surrey died on 31 January 1955. Probate was granted to John Victor Bernard Flawn, engineer.  

It is possible in 1881 Thomas and Susannah's son John Arthur Stormes Turner was a pupil at The Industrial School Ship Formidable, a naval training ship along with younger brother William. In 1901 John A Turner, aged 34, single, a leather merchants warehouseman is living with his brother Thomas Pyne Turner and his wife Sarah at 35, Grasmere Street, South Everton, Lancashire. It possible that John died aged 40 and was buried on 29 December 1906 in Everton Cemetary, Liverpool.

Thomas and Susannah's son William James Turner married Elizabeth Jones on 3 March 1889 in St John's Church. Mairdee. William was  22 year old saddler, son of Thomas "Pyne" Turner, policeman. Elizabeth was 20 years old, daughter of John Jones, sawyer.  

In 1891 they were living at 103, Victoria Avenue, Christchurch, Monmouthshire. William, aged 23 was an assurance agent. Their eldest two children had been born.  In 1901 they were still at the same address  and William was now a builders labour. Another daughter had been born. 

  • Elizabeth Susan Turner. Born 1890 in Christchurch, Newport. She married Thomas Holmes on 23 November 1913 at St John, Mindee, Newport. They had three children.  Elizabeth died in 1918 in Newport. In 1921 Thomas was living at  101 Durham Road, Newport. He was 39 years old and a gas engine driver for Newport Man Company. His three children, all under 10 years old were living with him. No one else is listed. In 1939 Thomas, a gas engineer driver (unemployed) was living at 24 Jeffery Street, Newport. His unmarried daughter was living with him. Thomas Holmes died in 1958 in Gwent. 
  • William John Turner. Baptised 26 April 1891 in Panmaen, Newport. I can find no trace of William in 1921 census at the current time. William married Eva Wardlaw Redmond in 1925 in Newport Market. I can find no trace of them in 1939 at the present time. William may have died on 5 May 1965, but probate suggests this William was not Eva's husband. . 
  • Rose Emily Turner. Born 2 September 1896 in Newport. Rose married William Evans in 1916 in Newport Market, Glamorgan. In 1921 they were living at 45 Victoria Road, Newport. William, aged 36 was a steelworks labourer for :Lysaghat Steel Mills, Newport. Rose, aged 25 was on home duties. They had a 4 year old son. William died in 1929.  Rose remarried in 1934 in Newport. Her second husband was Leonard George May.  In 1939 they were living at 37, Hawthorn Avenue, Newport. Leonard was a steel worker.  Leonard George May of 37, Hawthorn Avenue, Newport died on 25 September 1951 at The Royal Gwent General Hospital. Administration (limited) was granted to Arthur Woodhouse Evans, aluminium worker, and Terence Aubrey Evans, furnaceman. Rose also died in 1951 in Newport. 

William and Elizabeth Turner were still at 103 Victoria Avenue in 1911, the census shows that they had four children of which three survived. William was a builders labourer, daughter Elizabeth, aged 21, was an ironer in a laundry, son William, aged 20 was a railway porter and Rose was still at school. William's brother Samuel Henry Turner, aged 38 years and his two children were living with them (see below).  In 1921 William and Elizabeth were living at 101, Durham Road, Newport. William, aged 52 was a builders labourer. His last employer was British Mannesman Tube works, Newport, but he was currently out of work. Elizabeth, aged 51 was on home duties. All the children had left home. Elizabeth Turner died in 1951, aged 70 years old. 

Thomas and Susannah's son Samuel Henry Llewellyn Turner married Elizabeth Ellen Lynes on 9 October 1904 at Maindee, Monmouthshire. Samuel was a 32 year old fitter, son of Thomas Turner, (deceased) police constable. Elizabeth was a 27 year spinster, daughter of John Lynes, iron worker. 

They had two children:

  • Lilian Mary Turner. Born 3 August 1905 in Panteg, Newport. Lilian married to become Mrs Dennis. In 1939 Lilian Dennis was a ledger clerk for J Lyons food producers and was living at 505, Oldfield Way, Ealing. She is shown as married but her husband is not listed. Her parents were living with her (see below)
  • Samuel Turner. Born 1907 in Panteg, Newport.  

By 1911 Samuel had been widowed, seemingly after six years of marriage,. He was living with his brother William and his wife Elizabeth at 103, Victoria Avenue, Christchurch. The census shows he was a widower but had been married six years with three children, two of which survived. He was 38 years old and an annealer in Sheet Mills? His daughter was Lillian was 5 years old and his son Samuel, 4 years old. Samuel remarried in 1912. His second wife was Honora. In 1921 they were living in 49 Edward Street, Newport. Samuel was an annealer in a steel sheet works. He had been employed by J Lysaght Ltd, but was currently out of work. Honora, aged 53 was on home duties, Daughter Lilian was 15 years old and son Samuel was 14 years old, both at school whole time. Bertie Stephney, a 48 year old violinist for Moss Empire Music Halls was lodging with them. By 1939 Samuel and Honora were living with daughter Lilian at 505, Oldfield Way, Ealing. Samuel is musician (retired), a violinist!!  Honora was on unpaid domestic duties.  Samuel H L Turner of 4 White Park Cottages, Bletchingley died aged 83 and was cremated on 13 February 1956 following a service at St Mary's, Bletchingley.   

In 1901 Thomas and Susannah's daughter Rose Miriam Florence Turner,  a 24 year old domestic nurse was living with her sister Eleanor and brother in law. John Flawn,  journeyman baker at  Groombridge, Withyham. Other researchers suggest she emigrated to Australia where she married Charles Flegg in 1918 in Sydney. In 1933 they were living at 55, Walter Street, Sans Souci, Ramsgate, Barton.  She died in 1935 in Sans Souci. 

Sarah Ann Pasmore nee Pyne

Sarah Ann Pyne was born on 8 September 1834 and baptised on 23 November 1834 at St Mary's, Marylebone. Thomas and Eleanor were living at 390 High Street, Marylebone and Thomas was in "trade".

In 1841 Sarah was living with her mother at Walworth Gardens, St Mary's Newington, Surrey and in 1851 she was living with her mother and George William Prouse at 3 Elizabeth Place, St Giles, Camberwell. She was 16 years old and a "servant without situation".

On 8 March 1858, Sarah Ann Pyne of Kings Head Court, daughter of George Thomas Pyne, butcher married William Pasmore, a fire escape conductor. The witnesses were Andrew James Pasmore and Susannah Pyne. Susannah could be Sarah Ann's sister, she did not marry herself until later on that same year. Later censuses indicate that Sarah was the right age to be Eleanor's daughter and George Thomas Pyne's sister. 

In 1861 the family were living at 4 Cradle Court where 27 year old William was a fire escape conductor. Sarah was 25 years old and born in Marylebone. The couple had six children:

  • Sarah Ann Pasmore. Born 27 December 1858. Baptised 23 January 1859 in Finsbury. 
  • William Pasmore. Born 26 October 1860 at 46 Brick Lane, City Road, St Lukes. Baptised 25 November 1860 in St Lukes, Finsbury.
  • Maria Jane Pasmore. Born 25 July 1864 in London City, London, Middx. Baptised 30 December 1866 at St Marks, Kennington.
  • Mary Ann Pasmore. Born 29 June 1867  in Lambeth, Surrey
  • Clara Ellen Pasmore. Baptised 3 July 1870 at St Marks, Kennington. 
  • Andrew James Pasmore. Born 14 November 1874 in Lambeth, Surrey. Baptised 20 January 1875 at St Mary the Less, Lambeth.

In 1871 the family were living at 23 Mews Street, Lambeth and William, 38 is a fellowship porter. All the children except Andrew were living at home.

In 1881 the family are at Newburn Street, Lambeth where 48 year old William is a fish porter. In 1891 they are still at the same address, only son Andrew, a general labourer remained at home. . 

William Pasmore died in 1891 (Reg Gen June 1891 Lambeth 1d 275). 

In 1901 Sarah is living alone at 3 Monsey Street, Mile End, aged 68 she is described as "monthly nurse - sick". 

On 9 February 1906 Sarah Pasmore was admitted to Greenwich Union Infirmary, Vanburgh Hill Hospital. 

In 1911 Sarah Pasmore, a 78 year old widow was living was at 25 Caradoc Street, East Greenwich S E. She is described as friend to Harry Gilham, aged 44 and his wife Annie Gillham, also aged 44 years.  

Sarah A Pasmore died in 1915 (Reg Gen March 1915 Mile End Old Town 1c 520).

  • Sarah Ann Winter nee Pasmore

William and Sarah's daughter Sarah Ann Pasmore married Robert Winter on 20 May 1879 at St Mary's, Lambeth. Robert was a 25 year old fish dealer, the son of Jesse Winter, gardener. Sarah was the daughter of William Pasmore, porter. Both give their address as New Street. 

In 1881 Robert and Sarah were living at 12 Gloucester Road, St George Martyr where 27 year old Robert was a "carman". Robert and Sarah had three children

  • Sarah Ann Amelia Winter. Born 12 April 1880 in Bloomsbury. Baptised 9 May 1880 at St Mary's, Lambeth. On 20 February 1888 Sarah was admitted to Church Street Temporary School, Hackney.
  • Robert William Winter. Born 16 September 1883 in Marylebone. On 19 January 1891 he was admitted to Church Street Temporary School, Hackney. 
  • Jesse Winter. Born 30 September 1886. Baptised 30 October 1886 at Hoxton Holy Trinity. 

In 1891 the family were living at 20 Wimborne Road, Shoreditch. They were still at 20 Wimborne Road in 1901. Robert, aged 47 was a carman.   His wife Sarah was 42 years old. Son Robert, aged 17 was an ironmongers shop assistant. Son Jesse, aged 14 was a printers errand boy. Also listed is James Carpenter, aged 14, described as an 'adopted son'. Charles Dix, a 22 year old undertakers coachman and William Pasmore, aged 20 was a carman. William Pasmore was the son of Sarah's brother William Pasmore, so Sarah's nephew (see below)

Sarah Ann Winter died in 1904, aged just 44 years.

Their son Robert W Winter died in 1920 in Shoreditch, aged 37 years.  

Robert Winter appears to have remarried, His second wife was Lydia Julia. In 1921 they were living at 16, Hale Street, Islington. Robert, aged 67 was a porter at Perth Dye Works. Lydia, aged 66 was    

Robert Winter died in 1927 in Islington.

Robert and Sarah Ann's daughter Sarah Ann Amelia Winter married James Watkins on 17 September 1899. James was  21 year old painter, son of Edward Watkins, deceased chimney sweep.Sarah Ann Amelia was 19 years old the daughter of Robert Winter, carman. 

In 1901 James and Sarah Ann Amelia Watkins were living at 41, Walsingham Avenue, Southend on Sea. They had two children,

  • James Robert Victor Watkins. Born 3 February 1901. Baptised 3 March 1901 at Christ Church, Hoxton. On 7 January 1907, James Watkins, son of James Watkins, painter of 109, Arlington Street was admitted to Napier Street School, Hackney. I can find no trace of him in 1921 at the present time. James married Ethel Elizabeth Thompson in 1924 in West Ham. In 1939 they were living at 20, Cooper Avenue, Walthamstow and James was a house painter and paper hanger. James Robert V Watkins died in 1976 in Waltham Forest. Ethel Elizabeth Watkins died in 1990 in Waltham Forest. 
  • Amelia Rose Watkins. Born 29 March 1905. Baptised 30 April 1905 at Christ Church, Hoxton.  Amelia married Percy George Roome on 25 December 1926 at St Michael and All Angels, Walthamstow. They had two sons. In 1939 they were living in Perron, Southend on Sea where Percy was a GPO Postman. Percy had been appointed to the Postal Service on 4 May 1937. Percy George Roome of 23 Palmerstone Road, Westcliffe on Sea died on 28 November 1994. Amelia died on 1 March 2001 in Westcliffe on Sea. 

In 1911 they were living at 30, Tenby Road, Walthamstow. James was a builder working on his own account.  They were still at 30, Tenby Road in 1921. James, aged 42 was a builder/decorator working on his own account. "Amelia" was 41 years old and on home duties. Daughter Amelia was 16 years old and unemployed. Their nephew Robert Winter, aged 14 (born 1907) was living with them and was unemployed. Nothing more is known about James or Sarah Ann Amelia Watkins. 

Robert and Sarah Ann's son Jesse Winter married Daisy Desert on 5 October 1907 at St Matthias Church, Bethnal Green. Jesse was a 21 year old printer, the son of Robert Wilson Winter, carman. Daisy was an 18 year old basket maker daughter of Thomas Desert (deceased), carver. 

In 1911 they were living at 35, Great Cambridge Street, Hoggerston. N.E.  They had three children:

  • Daisy Ann Winter. Born 16 July 1908.  Baptised 9 August 1908. 
  • Jesse Winter. Born 12 June 1911. Baptised 4 July 1912 at St Matthais, Bethnal Green.  Jesse married Jessie E Botten in 1935 in Bethnal Green. In 1939 they were living with Jesse's parents at Maude House. In 1959 they were living at Horatio House, Bethnal Green. Jesse Winter of 10, Horatio House, Shipton Street, Bethnal Green died on 22 February 1989
  • Thomas Winter. Born 8 January 1920

In 1921 Jesse and Daisy were living at 33, Shipton Street, Bethnal Green. Jesse, aged 34 was a printers press hand for the Edinburgh Press Printers. Daisy, aged 32 was on home duties. Daisy was 12 years old, Jesse was 9, both in school whole time, and Thomas was 1 year old. Their nephew Albert J Winter, aged 11 was living with them. He had been born in Hoxton and his father had died. In 1939 Jesse and Daisy were living at 26, Maude House, Bethnal Green. Jesse was a printer (platter hand).  Daisy Winter, aged 55, died in 1943. Jesse Winter, aged 67, died in 1954

  • William Pasmore and Mary Henrietta Woodman / Elizabeth Martha Georgina Bales

William and Sarah's son, William Pasmore married twice. His first wife was Mary Henrietta Woodman. They married on 30 November 1879 at St Mary, Lambeth. William was a 20 year old "carman". Mary was the daughter of Matthew Woodman, blacksmith. 

In 1881 they were living at 20 Goodmans Yard, Whitechapel. William was a "carman". Their eldest son had been born.  

In 1891 they were living at 32, Wilcox Street, Lambeth and William was a "carman" Their eldest five children had been born. They had seven children in all:

  • William Charles Pasmore. Baptised 6 January 1881 in Whitechapel
  • Alice Maud Pasmore. Born 15 November 1882 at St Olave, Southwark. Baptised 15 June 1883 at St Agnes, Southwark. 
  • Charlotte Ann Pasmore. Born 13 July 1885. 
  • Ethel Maud Pasmore. Baptised 7 August 1887 in St Mary's, Lambeth. Ethel died in 1889 in Lambeth.
  • Henry John Pasmore. Born 1890 in Lambeth. Henry died in 1891 in Lambeth. 
  • Ethel Maud Pasmore. Born 15 April 1892 in Lambeth. 
  • Alfred Henry Pasmore. Born 15 April 1894. Baptised 30 May 1894 at St Peter's, Vauxhall.

Mary Henrietta Pasmore died aged 37 and was buried on 18 February 1899 in Newnham.  

In 1901 William, aged 38 was living at 8 Jersey Street, Bethnal Green. He is a carman at Spitalfields market. He is shown as married and his wife was Elizabeth, aged 30!! Children Ethel, aged 9, Alfred, aged 7 and Alice E Pasmore, aged 1 are listed.  Alice appears to have been Elizabeth's daughter, born out of wedlock.   Alice E Bales may have died in 1912, aged 13 years (Reg Gen March 1912 Hackney 1b 597).

 William's second marriage was to Elizabeth Martha Georgina Bales in Whitechapel on 20 August 1905. William was a 45 year old "widower" employed a a "car man". Elizabeth was a 31 year old spinster. Both give their address as 2 Bennets Place. William's father William is shown as deceased porter. Elizabeth's father was James Lake Bales, printer. The witnesses were James Lake Bales and Emma Louisa Bales. 

In 1911 William and Elizabeth were living at 28 Fort Street, Spitalfields. William, aged 51, was a "cart minder" for a fruit seller. HIs wife Elizabeth was 37 years old. They appear to be living in a shared house with an unconnected family. The census shows they had been married 10 years (which doesn't tie in with the marriage record) and had two children, both of whom had died. Other researchers suggest his two children were:

  • John James Pasmore. Born 19 November 1902 in Spitalfields. Baptised 11 November 1902 at Christ Church with St Mary and St Stephen. William was a market trader. John died the following year aged 10 months and was buried on 6 October 1903 at Newham. 
  • William Pasmore. Born 1907 in Mile End. Died 1907 in Mile End (Reg Gen December 1907 Mile End 1c 246) 

In 1921 William and Elizabeth were living at 24, Hemming Street, Bethnal Green. William, aged 60  was a general labourer (retired) and Elizabeth, aged 47 was an office cleaner for the Union Castle Line, Fenchurch Street.  

Elizabeth Pasmore died on 19 December 1922 aged 48 years. She was buried on 22 December 1922 in Newnham, London. 

In 1939 William was living alone at Loggides Road, Hackney. He was a widower, described as a "retired car attendant". 

William Passmore died aged 80, in 1940 in Hackney.

In 1901 William and  Mary Henrietta's son William Charles Pasmore was boarding at 20, Wimbourne Street, Shoreditch, with Richard Winter, a 47 year old carman and his wife Sarah Ann, aged 42 years old. Sarah Ann Winter was William's father's sister, so William Charles Pasmore's aunt (see above).  William Charles Pasmore, aged 20, was a "carman". William married Annie Beach on 8 April 1906 in St Stephen's, Spitalfields. William was a 27 year old carman. Annie was a 32 year old widow, the daughter of Thomas Payne, gardener. 

In 1911 William and Annie were living at 34, Wimbourne Street, Hoxton with two boarders. William, aged 30 was a carman.  William Charles Pasmore died aged 38 and was buried on 16 February 1918 at Newnham. Annie Passmore died aged 44 in 1920 in Shoreditch. 

In 1901 William and Mary Henrietta's daughter Alice Maud Pasmore was a servant working for James Cox, coffee house keeper and his family at 2, Hanbury Street, Spitalfields. She married John Fowler in 1910 in Whitechapel. In 1911 they were living at 32, Hague Street, Bethnal Green. John was a carman and their eldest daughter was 1 month old. They had six children.

  • Alice Mabel Fowler. Born 31 January 1911 in Bethnal Green. Alice married William George Andrew Straub in 1938 in Hackney. In 1939 William and Alice M Straub was living with her parents in Hackney. William was a motor driver and Alice was a mantle machinist. The register suggests that Alice later became Mrs Stuart. 
  • John William Fowler. Born 29 March 1913 in Shoreditch. John married Jesse Anderson on 25 August 1935 in St John's, Hackney. John was a 22 year old printer, son of John Fowler, train driver. Jessie was 21 years old, the daughter of Robert Fred Anderson, dustman. In 1939 they were living at 24, Southern Drive, Chigwell. John was a printers assistant.  John William Fowler of 24 Southern Drive, Laughton died on 24 May 1966 at St Bartholomew's Hospital, London. Probate was granted to his widow, Jesse.  Jesse Fowler appears to have emigrated to Australia, where she died on 3 July 2003 in Gin Gin, Bundaberg Region, Queensland, Australia.  
  • George Daniel Fowler. Born 24 October 1915 in Hackney. George married Annie McLoughlin in 1954 in Uxbridge. George died in 1966 in the Isle of Wight. 
  • Leonard Charles Fowler. Born 22 February 1919 in Hackney. Leonard may have died in 1998 in Norfolk. 
  • Lilian M Fowler. Born 14 October 1922 in Hackney. Lilian married Ernest Edward Reynolds in 1941 in Hackney. Ernest died on 12 March 1976 in Newnham.  
  • Ethel F Fowler. Born 1925 in Hackney. Ethel may have married John J Scott in 1946 in Edmonton. 

In 1921 John and Alice were living at 68, Loddiges Road, Hackney. John was a 38 year old tram driver for L C C Tramways, Hackney Depot. Alice, aged 38 was on home duties. Daughter, Alice, aged 10, Son John, aged 8, and George, aged 5 were all at school, whole time. Son Leonard was 2 years old. Alice's brother Alfred Pasmore, a 28 year old part time boot clicker for Franklin & Sons, bootmaker was living with  them.  In 1939 John and Alice were still living at 68, Loddiges Road. John was a trolley bus driver, sons George and Leonard were warehousemen, daughters Alice and Lilian were mantle machinists. Alice was married and her husband was also living with them. Alice M Fowler died aged 65 and was buried on 9 November 1945 in Islington. John Fowler died in 1971.

William and Mary Henrietta's daughter Charlotte Ann Pasmore married Albert John Agombar on 13 April 1903 at St Judi, Bethnal Green. Albert, aged 21, a marble mason was the son of Edward Agombar (deceased), a silk mercer. Charlotte was 19 years old. 

In 1911 they were living at 8, Shetland Street, Bethnal Green. Albert was a carman and coal porter. Charlotte was an assistant in a coffee house. The census shows that they had been married eight years, that they had four children of which two had died, but then goes on to list all four children! Charlotte's sister Ethel M Pasmore, an 18 year old "upper shiner" for a boot manufacturer and Alfred H Pasmore, aged 16, a boot scourer were living with them. Albert and Charlotte may have had the following children

  • Albert Edward Agombar. Born 1904 in Bethnal Green. Died 1906 in Bethnal Green.
  • William Charles Agombar.  Born 1906 (Reg Gen March 1906 Whitechapel 1c 246). Died 1906 in Bethnal Green (Reg Gen June 1906 Bethnal Green 1c 102
  • Charles William Agombar. Born 30 April 1907 in Bethnal Green (Reg Gen June 1907 Bethnal Green 1c 1a) . Charles died in 1911, aged 4, in Bethnal Green (Reg Gen March 1911 Bethnal Green 1c 157). 
  • Alice Maud Agombar. Born 30 April 1907 in Bethnal Green (twin). Alice married Herbert Charles Adams on 28 June 1929 at Christ Church, South Hackney. Herbert was 27 year old carpenter, son of Herbert Robert Adams, carter. Alice was a 22 year old spinster, daughter of Albert Agombar, labourer.  In 1939 Herbert and Alice were at 19, Finnymore Road, Dagenham and Herbert was a carpenter. Herbert Charles Adams died in 1967. Alice Maud Adams died in 1972 in Barking, aged 65 years. 
  • Alfred Henry Agombar. Born 25 May 1910 in Bethnal Green. Baptised 9 June 1910 at St Jude, Bethnal Green. Alfred married Ellen Randall in 1929 in Bethnal Green. In 1939 they were living at 15, Balliol Road, Tottenham, N17 and Alfred was a wood machinist. They were still there in 1957 when Alfred died aged 46 years. 
  • Ethel Maud Agombar. Born 19 December 1912 in Bethnal Green. Baptised "Alice Maud Agombar" on 5 January 1913 at St James the Great, Bethnal Green.  Ethel married William Thomas Hill on 25 December 1935 at Christ Church, South Hackney. In 1939 they were living at 11, The Oval, Bethnal Green and Edward was a wharf labourer. Ethel died aged 64 and was buried on 13 April 1977 in Havering. William T Hill died on 18 September 1996 in Havering. 
  • George E Agombar. Born 1915 in Bethnal Green. George died 8 years later and was buried on 27 July 1923 in Newnham. 
  • Mary Amelia Agombar. Born 11 March 1919. Mary married Charles Patrick Kenny-Boyd in 1939. From at least 1947 to 1952 they were living at 16, Lyte Street, E2.  In 1954 they were at 17 Rosebery House, E2. Charles died in 1991 in Stevenage. Mary died in 1995 in Stevenage.  
  • Herbert William Agombar.  Born 26 December 1926 in Bethnal Green. Herbert married Rosina A Cook in 1945. In 1950 they were at 15, Marian Street, Bethnal Green. In 1964 they were living at 29, Temple Dwellings, Temple Street, E2. Herbert William Agombar died in 1987 in Thurrock. In 2003 and 2004 Rosina was at 32a Maurice Road, Canvey Island. 

In 1921 Albert and Charlotte were living at 13, The Oval, Bethnal Green. Albert, aged 39, was a carman for E Range, 33 Cypress Street. Charlotte, aged 36 was an office cleaner, but now out of work. Alice, aged 14, Alfred, aged 12, Ethel, aged 8, George, aged 6 and Mary, aged 2 years old, were all described as scholars full time.  Their nephew's Edward Agombar, aged 20, a captain man for Midland Railway, but currently out of work, and George Agombar, aged 17, a vanguard for Midland Railway; their nieces Harriet Agombar, aged 15, an errand girl for Pollicoffe and May Agombar, aged 13, a scholar whole time were living with them. The census indicates that their parents were both dead. In 1939 Albert and Charlotte were living at 5, Colville House, Bethnal Green. Albert was a coal porter, but incapacitated. Charlotte was a charwoman. Only daughter Mary remained at home. Charles Kennyboyd, a contractors labourer was also listed at the address.  Albert John Agombar died in 1948 in Bethnal Green, aged 66 years old. Charlotte died and was buried on 13 July 1971 in Havering. 

William and Mary Henrietta's daughter Ethel Maud Pasmore married George Edward Stanford on 20 May 1918 in Christ Church, South Hackney. George was a 24 year old soldier, son of George Edward Stanford, builder. Ethel was 26 years old, the daughter of Albert Pasmore, (strangely) greengrocer. 

In 1921 they were living at 68, Loddiges Road, Hackney. George was a 27 half time boot finisher for J Polikoff. Ethel, aged 29 year old half time boot sewer for J Franklin & Sons. In 1939 George and Ethel were still living at 68, Loddiges Road, Hackney, the same address as Ethel's sister Alice (see above), but seemingly a separate household. George was a boot and shoe factory foreman.  Ethel Maud Stanford died on 14 February 1944 and was buried on 21 February 1944 in Newnham. 

Finally William and Mary Henrietta's son Alfred Henry Pasmore enlisted in the  Royal Berkshire Regiment Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry on 5 September 1914. He was a 20 year old bootmaker.  He was initially sent to France on 15 July 1915. He had various other postings before being demobilized on 1 March 1919. In 1921, Alfred Pasmore, a 28 year old part time boot clicker for Franklin & Sons, bootmaker was living with his sister Alice and her husband John Fowler at 68, Loddiges Road, Hackney. Alfred married Alice Maud Dymond on 23 June 1923 at St John's Church, Bethnal Green. Henry, aged 29 was a boot maker, son of William Charles Pasmore, market porter. I did have some concerns about whether this was the correct marriage as this is the first time I believe his father is referred to as "William Charles". The occupation is in line with what we know William did. Alice was 31 years old, the daughter of James Dymond, deceased boot maker. 

In 1924 they were living at 41, Tower Street, Hackney. They had at least one son

  • Alfred Henry Jas Pasmore. Born 1925 in Hackney. Buried 24 September 1937 in St Peter in the Forest, Walthamstow. 

Alfred Henry Pasmore died in 1939 in Bethnal Green. At the time the register was taken, Alice was a widow living alone at 6, Robinson Road, Bethnal Green (possibly a shared house), her address when she married. Alice Maud Pasmore of 91, Bishops Way, London E2 died on 28 September 1965 at St Matthews Hospital, Shoreditch. Administration was granted to Louisa Webb, widow. 

  • Maria Jane Reddin nee Pasmore

William and Sarah's daughter, Maria Jane Pasmore married John Reddin on 25 December 1884 at St John's, Hoxton.  John was a 22 year old farrier, the son of Daniel Reddin, horse keeper.

 They had five children:

  • Maria Caroline Reddin. Born 17 October 1885 in Hoxton. Baptised 4 November 1885 at Hoxton Holy Trinity Church
  • John William Reddin. Born 10 April 1887 in Hoxton. 
  • Albert Ernest Reddin. Born 6 May 1889. Baptised 2 June 1889 at Hoxton Holy Trinity Church. 
  • Florrie May Reddin. Born 15 December 1894 in Southwark. 
  • Bessie Elizabeth Reddin. Born 5 May 1902. Baptised 18 May 1902 at St Mary Magdalen, Southwark.  

In 1892 Maria, John and Albert were all admitted the Globe Road School in Tower Hamlets. Their address at the time was 23 Tower Hamlets. 

In 1901 the family were living at 291 Weston Street where 38 year old John was a farrier. The census shows that he was born in County Cork, Ireland. Their eldest daughter Maria, aged 16 was employed as a book folder. 

In 1911 they were living at 7 Burgundy Street, Old Kent Road where John was now a builders labourer. The census shows that they had ten children, but only five survived. Only Florrie and Elizabeth remained at home. Florrie was a packer of fancy goods. 

I can find no trace of the family in the 1921 census at the present time. 

In 1939 Maria Reddin was a widowed pensioner living at 10, Rochester Avenue, Feltham. Norman J R Matthews, born 16 March 1927 and at school is living with her.  It is not known, if or how he was related.

Maria J Reddin died on 20 May 1945 in Dartford, Kent (Reg Gen June 1945 Dartford 2a 901).

Nothing more is known with certainty about their sons John William Reddin or Albert Ernest Reddin

John and Maria's daughter Maria Caroline Reddin married Frederick Charles Newman Oxman on 1 July 1906 at St Matthias, Poplar. Frederick was a 23 year old carman, son of Albert Edward Oxman (deceased), grocer.  

In 1911 they were living at 7 Burgandy Street, Old Kent Road where Frederick was a carman for a chemist and druggist. Their eldest two daughters had been born. They had five children in all:  

  • Florence Caroline Oxman. Born 10 November 1906. Baptised 2 December 1906 at St Phillip  the Apostle, Camberwell. In 1939 Florence was still living with her parents. In 1957, 50 year old Florence returned from Montreal arriving on 8 November. She is described as a clerk and gives her address as 16 Martindale Road, Hounslow.  It is possible that she was visiting her brother Charles (see below). Florence Caroline Oxman of 13 Dryden, Bracknell, Berks died on 3 August 1981
  • Lilian Elizabeth Oxman. Born 10 March 1908. Lillian married Albert Robert Brookes in 1931, In 1939 they were living with Lillian's parents. Robert was an HGV driver for Tate & Lyle and Lillian was a shorthand typist. Lilian Elizabeth Oxman died in 1978 in Bracknell, Berks. Is this Lilian? and does this suggest that she got divorced?  
  • Albert John Frederick Oxman. Born 5 July 1911. Baptised 23 July 1911 at St Phillip the Apostle, Camberwell. Albert died and was buried on 20 July 1915 in Newham.  
  • Charles Vernon Bates Oxman. Born 21 January 1914 in Camberwell. Baptised 15 February 1914 at Dulwich. In 1937 and 1939 Charles was still living with his parents. Charles may have emigrated to Canada. He returned to the UK arriving on 8 September 1950 not intending to remain resident, but giving his address in the UK as 16, Martindale Road. He was a 36 year old electrician.  
  • Eileen Ellen Oxman. Born and baptised on 11 April 1916 at St John the Devine, Kennington. Eileen was buried on 18 May 1916 in Newnham.  

In 1921 they were living at 47, Langton Road, Brixton, Lambeth. Frederick Charles Oxman, a 38 year old druggist carman for Evansons Lester & Webb Ltd, Wholesale Druggist,  Maria, aged 35 is described as out of work. but previously worked for Osenton Licenced Victualler. Daughters Florence, aged 14; Lilian, aged 12 and son Charles, aged were all scholars whole time. Bessie Elizabeth Reddin, aged 19 was out of work, but previously employed by Evansons Lester & Webb Ltd (see below).  In 1939 they were living at 16, Martindale Road, Heston and Isleworth where Frederick was a master boot and shoe repairer. Daughter Florence was a philatelist (stamp collector) auctioneers record clerk and son Charles was an electrical engineer on aircraft.  Daughter Lillian had married and she and her husband (see above) were living with her parents. Frederick C N Oxman died in 1953. Maria Caroline Oxman died in 1973 in Hounslow.

John and Maria's daughter Florrie May Reddin married William John Downs on 26 June 1915 at St Phillip the Apostle, Camberwell. William was a 23 year old clerk, son of George Downs (deceased), tanner. 

In 1921 they were living at 47, Langton Road, Brixton, Lambeth. William, aged 29 was a general clerk for North Western Railways, Unity House, Euston Road, London. Florence, aged 26 was on home duties. Their eldest two children were born and aged 4 and 1 years old. They had three children;

  • Bessie Florence Marie Downs. Born 7 December 1916. Baptised 31 December 1916 at St John the Evangelist, East Dulwich.  Bessie married Charles Frederick  Heasman in 1942 in Dartford. They emigrated to Australia. They had two children. Bessie died on 26 August 1998. Charles Frederick Heasman died on 12 March 1999. Both were buried at Enfield Memorial Park, Clearview, Port Adelaide, Enfield City, South Australia. 
  • Eileen Patricia Downs. Born 20 February 1920. Baptised 21 March 1920 at St John the Evangelist, East Dulwich. Eileen married Frederick John Banks in 1946 in Dartford. Frederick John Banks of 38, Northall Road, Barnehurst died on 20 October 1975 in Barnehurst, Bexleyheath. Eileen died in 2004 in Cambridge.
  • Dennis William Downs. Born 5 July 1923. Dennis married Elsie Everest in 1944 in Dartford.  In 1964 they were living at 26, Newbery Road. Elsie died on 3 September 1977 in Bexley. Dennis William Downs of 26, Newbery Road, Slade Green, Erith died on 7 September 1982 in Erith, Kent. 

In 1939 William and Florrie Downs were living at 38, Northall Road, William was a clerk registration at a Trade union office. They appear to have had four children of which three are open on register. Bessie was a tracer C.I.A at Woolwich arsenal, Eileen was an assistant book marker and Dennis was a LAD machine operator. William John Downs, of 38, Northall Road, Barneshurst died on 30 May 1951 and was buried on 5 June 1951 at St Paulinus, Crayfield. Florrie May Downs died in 1974 in Bexley and was buried on 26 July 1974 in Crayford. 

In 1921 John and Maria's daughter Bessie Elizabeth Reddin was living at 47, Langton Road, Brixton, Lambeth. with her sister Maria and her husband Frederick Charles Oxman (see above). Bessie was aged 19 and out of work, but previously employed by Evansons Lester & Webb Ltd. Bessie married Albert J Matthews in 1930 in Lewisham. In 1937 Albert and Bessie were living at 10, Elmsworth Avenue, Hounslow. In 1939 they were at 6, North Dene, Twickenham. It is not clear how he is related to Norman Matthews who was living with Bessie's mother in 1939. Albert was a "theatrical manager - pictures", born 18 March 1881 so considerably older than his wife. Also at the address was Albert R Matthews, born 23 October 1918, also a "theatrical manager - pictures". It seems likely that Albert had been married previously and Albert and Norman were son's from that first marriage. 

  • Mary Ann Banford nee Pasmore

In 1881 William and Sarah's daughter Mary Pasmore was living with her parents in New Street, Lambeth. Aged 14 she is already employed as a domestic servant.  

Mary Ann Pasmore married James Banford on 20 May 1888 at St John, Walworth. Mary was a 21 year old spinster, the daughter of William Pasmore, porter. James was a 22 year old labourer, the son of George Banford, deceased. 

In 1891 James, 26, and Mary Ann, 24, were living at 152 Vauxhall Road, Lambeth. James, aged 26 was a "carman". Their son James was three months old. James Banford was baptised on 4 March 1891, the son of James and Mary Anne. James was a labourer and they were living at 152 Vauxhall Street. 

In 1901 they are living at 16, Arden Street, Battersea and James, aged 36 is a bricklayers labourer. They have two children;

  • Rose Ellen Banford. Born 5 September 1894
  • James Banford. Born 2 April 1896 

Is it likely that their first son James had died in the interim? 

On 10 April 1899, 3 year old James Banford had been admitted to Sleaford Street School. 

In 1911 they are at 2 Arden Street, Battersea, James is a builders labourer, Mary Ann is doing "laundry - ironer", daughter Rose is a book folder and son James an errand boy. The census shows that they had four children of which two survived.  

In 1921 James and Mary Ann were living in 29, Arden Street, Battersea Park Road, Battersea. James was a 54 year old general labourer for Simmonds Builders and Decorators. Mary Ann was 53 years old and on home duties. Son James remained at home and was a carman, currently out of work but previously employed by King carman and Contractor.  

In 1927 James, Mary Ann and James Jnr. are on the electoral role at 20, Arden Street. Were they moving in the one street or were the street numbers changing. 

Mary Ann Banford died in 1929 aged 62 in Wandsworth. 

In 1939, her widower James Banford, a retired builders labourer and his son James, a general labourer at the gasworks are still living at 20 Arden Street. 

Nothing more is known about James Banford Snr. 

James and Mary Ann's daughter Rose Ellen Banford had married Frederick Charles Lawrence  on 27 March 1921 at St George the Martyr, Battersea. Frederick was a 20 year old foreman, son of Robert Thomas Lawrence, blacksmith. Rose was also 20 years old, son of James Banford, labourer.  

In 1921 Frederick and Rose were living at 20, Arden Street, Battersea. Frederick, aged 26 was a leading hand foreman labourer for the T D R A S C Government Department. Rose, aged 26 was on home duties. In 1939 Frederick and Rose were still living at 20 Arden Street, Battersea, now with Rose's father and brother. Frederick was a "glazier  - railway engineering maintenance". Rose was a "packer and bottle washer".  According to his brother in law's probate records, Frederick Charles Lawrence died in or before 1948. Rose Ellen Lawrence died in 1984, aged 89 years, in Ashford. Kent.

James and Mary Ann's son James Banford had been living with his parents and more latterly his widowed father up to and including 1939. James Banford of 29 Tweed Street, Battersea died on 1 August 1948 at St Thomas Hospital, London. He was 52 years old. Administration was granted to Rose Ellen Lawrence, widow. 

  • Clara Ellen Dennett nee Pasmore

William and Sarah's daughter Clara Ellen Pasmore married John Thomas Dennett on 28 December 1893 at St John, Bethnal Green. John was 27 years old, a furrier, the son of William Robert Dennett (deceased) a coffee roaster. Clara was 23 years old the daughter of William Pasmore (deceased) a fellowship porter.  

In 1901 they were living at Classion and John, 35 was a furrier. In 1911 the family were living at 82 Clarissa Street, Shoreditch. John, aged 45 was a fur jacket culler for a furrier. They had seven children:

  • Clara Alice Dennett. Born 16 November 1894. Baptised 16 December 1894 at St Leonards, Shoreditch. 
  • Rose Amelia Dennett, Baptised 2 August 1896 at Christ Church, Hoxton. 
  • Lily Florence Dennett. Born 16 April 1899. Baptised "Nellie Florence" Dennett on 7 May 1899 at All Saints, Haggerston. 
  • Jesse Elizabeth  Dennett.  Born 7 October 1902. Baptised 26 October 1902  at All Saints, Haggerston. 
  • John William Dennett. Born 28 November 1904. Baptised 8 December 1904 at All Saints, Haggerston.
  • James Robert Dennett. Born 27 January 1908. Baptised 4 February 1908 at All Saints, Haggerston.  
  • Winifred May Dennett. Born 29 March 1911 in Shoreditch

In 1911 their daughter Clara was a machinist in a child clothing factory and Rose was an errand girl in a factory. 

In 1921 John and Clara were living at 7, Shrubland Road, Shoreditch. John, aged 55 was a furrier cutter for Allhausen & Co, furriers. Cater Lane, London. Clara, aged 51 was on household duties. Clara A Dennett, aged 25 was a children's clothes machinist for Lang & Co clothing manufacturers, Bayer Street, London. Rose A Dennett, aged 24, was a children's clothing cutter for Gooddale & Co, children's clothing manufacturer, Minories. London. Lily, aged 22 was an insurance clerk for the National Amalgamated Approved Society, Euston Square, London. Jessie E, aged 18 was a clerk/cook for Kearley & Tonge Wholesale Provisions, Mitre Square, London. John W, aged 16 was a toolmaker - taps and dies engineer tool man, for Nuckey Scott Co, tool makers, 218 Pentonville Road, London. James, aged 13 and "Winnie", aged 10 were school makers.  

In 1931, John, Clara Ellen, Clara Alice. James Robert. Jesse Elizabeth and John William Dennett are all still on the electoral register at 7 Shrubland Road, Hackney. 

John T Dennett died on 28 June 1939 in Stephney. 

When the 1939 register was taken later that year, Clara E Dennett, widow, described as incapacitated was living at 18, Strathmore Avenue, Hitchin with her son John W Dennett  and his wife (see below). 

Clara Ellen Dennett of 78 Amhurst Road, Hackney, widow, died 6 December 1943 in Hackney Hospital. Probate was granted to Jesse Elizabeth Lovell, married woman (see below). 

In 1939 John and Clara's daughter Clara Alice Dennett was a patient, along with numerous others at Grange Road, Coulsdon. Clara Alice Dennett of 7 Shrubland Road, Dalston, London E3 died on 14 May 1942, aged 47 at The Hospital, Coulsdon, Surrey. Probate was granted to Jessie Elizabeth Lovell (wife of Edmond Wilfred Lovell). Clara had predeceased her mother. 

John and Clara's daughter "Rosa" Amelia Dennett emigrated to Australia leaving London on 7 November 1923. She was 27 years old, single and a cutter. Rose married William Henry Skafte on 7 June 1924 in Victoria. William had been born in Bethnal Green, London. In 1920 he was living in Hackney, London. In 1925 they were living in Waverley Road, Malvern East, Henty, Victoria. William was an instrument maker. They had three children. 

  • William Peter Skafte. Born 1925. Died 1925 in Malvern East, Victoria.
  • Peter Dennett Skafte. Born 1926. On 31 May 1953 Peter, a 26 year old salesman and his sister Nancy, a 22 year old dress designer arrived in London from Sydney on S.S. Straithard. Their address in London was to be 45, Forest Road, Dainton, E8.  They returned to Melbourne on S.S. Stathaver arriving 23 February 1954. Had they been in England all that time? Their address in Australia was to be 17, Mavho Street, Bentley, S E !4, Melbourne. Peter married Margaret Jennifer Edwards in 1961 in Victoria. In they were living at 6, Sanday Street, Glen Waverly, Bruce, Victoria. Peter was a labourer and Margaret, a stenographer. Peter died in 2022 in Melbourne, Victoria. 
  • Nancy Claire Skafte. Born 1931. Nancy married William Roger Thomas Bodger in 1956 in Victoria. They had three children. Nancy died in 2011. William died on 14 July 2011 and was buried at Phillip, Canberra.  

William Henry Skafte died on 12 March 1970 in Bentleigh, Malvern. The notice confirms that he had been  an instrument maker. Rosa Skafte died in 1987

John and Clara's daughter Lily Florence Dennett married William Albert Cornish on 25 August 1923 in Shoreditch. William was a 26 year old clerk, son of Thomas Henry Cornish, compositor. lily was 24 years old, daughter of John Thomas Dennett, farmer. 

 In 1939 they were at 50 Ennerdale Avenue, Harrow, where William was a civil service clerk. They had two children, including. 

  • Ronald William Cornish. Born 31 October 1927. Ronald married Pauline R Green in 1956 in Hackney. He died on 15 March 2016 in St Albans.  

In 1953 they were still at 50, Ennerdale Avenue. Lily Florence Cornish died in 1976 in Southend on Sea. William Albert Cornish died on 20 January 1988 in Watford, Herts.  

In 1939 John and Clara's daughter Jessie Elizabeth Dennett was one of over 170 people at Moor Close, Popeswood Road, Easthampstead. She was a "Sectional head clerk" (see here). She married Edmund Wilfred Frederick Lovell in 1940 in Hackney. Edmond Wilfred Frederick Lovell of 15, Priory Walk, Ventnor, Isle of Wight died on 26 September 1985 on the Isle of Wight. Jessie Elizabeth Lovell of 15, Priory Walk, Norton, Ventnor, Isle of Wight died on 16 June 1987.  

John and Clara's son John William Dennett was a "fitter & turner" who joined the "Royal Navy" on 21 March 1927.  John married Ena Alice Daisy Groves in 1939 in Medway, Kent. Later that year they were living at 18, Strathmore Avenue, where John W was an electrician in the air industry.  Also at the address was John's mother Clara who was incapacitated. Ena Alice Daisy Groves died on 24 February 1966 at Brook Hospital, Shooters Hill, Woolwich and was buried on 2 March 1966 at Bexleyheath Cemetery. John William Dennett died on 13 April 1988 in Welling, Kent. 

John and Clara's son James Robert Dennett married Helen Violet Clayton in 1933 in Hendon.  In 1938 James and Helen were living at 84, Trinity Road, Wood Green, N22. They were still at that same address in 1939 and James was a electric welder (pipe, tank and pressure vessel), charge hand (wiring for metal finishing). The head of the household appears to be Alexander J Rae, a hotel door porter. James Robert Dennett died in 1989 in Hatfield. Helen Violet Dennett died on 16 December 1991 in Welwyn Garden City. 

Finally in 1912 John and Clara's daughter Winifred May Dennett was appointed a telephonist for the British Postal Service at Sandown Sorting Office. She married John Charles Jones in 1937 in Shoreditch. In 1939 they were living at 7, Shrubland Road, Shoreditch where John was a cabinet maker.  Other researchers have suggested the couple emigrated to Australia where John died in 1976 and Winifred in 2003 in Melbourne. 

  • Andrew James Pasmore and Bridget Bruton

In 1891 William and Sarah's son Andrew J Pasmore was still living with his parents at 52 Newburn Street, Lambeth. Aged 16, he was employed as a general labourer. 

Andrew married Bridget Bruton on 8 June 1902 at All Saints, Haggerston. Andrew was 27 year old porter, the son of William Pasmore, fish porter. Bridget was a 30 year old telephonist,  daughter of  James Bruton, farm bailiff. 

In 1911 Andrew and "Bessie" were living at 84, Fendale Road, Lambeth where Andrew was a "electrician fitter" They had one son Andrew James Pasmore, a 7 year old scholar. Andrew was born on 26 April 1903 in Hackney. 

Andrew was a Army reservist having served in the Royal Garrison artillery between 3 September 1914 and 7 April 1915. 

Their son Andrew was admitted to St Mary's Roman Catholic School, Wandsworth. He had previously been at St Andrews, Streatham where he was removed from in June 1915. 

In 1921 they were living at Fen Court in the City of London. Andrew James "Passmore" was 46 years old and a caretaker for Tucker Lake & Lyon (Solicitor), 74 Gt Russell Street W. Bridget Mary Passmore was 48 years old and on home duties. The census confirms that she was born in Ireland. Their son Andrew was 18 years old and a student at Black and White.  

In 1939 Andrew and Bridget were living at 10, Cathcart Hill, Islington where Andrew was an electrician. Their son Andrew is still at home and is described as "incapacitated".  

Bridget Pasmore died in 1942, in Kensington aged 70 years. 

Andrew and Bridget's son Andrew J Pasmore Junior died in 1945 in Kensington. 

Andrew James Pasmore of 76, Hope Street, Sheerness, Kent died aged 79 on 3 June 1954 at The General Hospital, Sheppey, Kent. Administration was granted to H.M. Treasury, solicitor. Presumably he died without a will. Could no beneficiaries be found? 

George Thomas Pyne and Annie Jane Stroud nee Scott

George Thomas Pyne was born on 4 June 1841 at Walworth Gardens, East Street, Newington the son of Eleanora Pyne, needlewoman. No details are given of George's father. (Reg Gen June Qtr 1841 Newington 4 3442).

At the time the 1841 census was taken on 7 June 1841 George is two days old and as yet unnamed. He is living with his mother Eleanor Pine, aged 30 at Walworth Gardens, St Mary's Newington, Surrey (SE17)

According to the 1871 census George had been blind from the age of 3 months. 

In 1851 George Thomas Pyne was 9 years old, a servant without situation was living with his mother Eleanor now described as Eleanor Prouse, George William Prouse, a 40 year old coachman and his three sisters at 3 Elizabeth Place (below ground).

In 1861 George Thomas Pyne was presented with a bible by The Committee of The Blind Schools, St George's Fields, Southwark. This remains with the family.

This appears to have been the School for the Indigent Blind which opened its first school in 1810 and by 1812 had built a school on 2 acres of ground between the obelisk of St Georges Circus and the premises of the Philanthropic Society. In 1832 it acquired the freehold of the premises and by 1833 had 55 male and 57 female students. 

For more information and pictures of the school, see,

George Thomas Pyne and Annie Jane Stroud married on 10 September 1868 at the parish church of St Botolph, Aldersgate, London. George Thomas describes himself as a bachelor of full age (i.e. over 21), a professor of singing living at 51 Lauderdale Buildings. No details are given of his father. Annie Jane describes herself as a widow living at 14 Cross Key Square. No occupation is given. Her father is shown as James George Scott, a nautical instrument maker. Both George and Annie only made their mark. The witnesses were James Matthew Hutchinson and Elizabeth Hutchinson.

Ann Jane Scott was born on 26 April 1839 and was baptised on 9 September 1839, the daughter of James Scott, mathematical instrument maker and Jane Knight.  Annie Jane Pyne had previously been married to Henry Stroud, the marriage having taken place on 14 February 1863 at St George the Martyr, Southwark. Henry Stroud died in 1866.  Her parentage, early life and siblings are covered in Appendix Oas well as much of what follows below. 

George and Annie were both musicians and performed together. Local newspaper reports of the time include:

"6 March 1869 - "Surrey Comet, London".

On Friday evening last week the choral class of the British Association of the Blind assisted by the other blind artistes gave their annual concert at the New Lecture Hall..............The lions share of the favour, however was bestowed on Madame Annie Pyne and Mr G T Pyne, the singing of the later "The Wolf" and "Will O the Wisp" being so good as to be redemanded. Madame Pyne was encored for her delivery of "bid me discourse" substituting "I dreamt I dwell in Marble Halls" which she sung remarkable well.

20 March 1869 - "St Pancreas, Holborn and Bloomsbury Journal".

The Blind Choral Class gave its fourth concert at Birbeck Institute, Southampton Buildings, Chancery Lane.................. Mr G T Pyne sang "Speed on my bark" in a manner that moved the enthusiasm of the company and was encored. Madame Annie Pyne, a young blind lady of pleasing appearance and who we understand had recently become the wife of the conductor of the concert sang "Tell me with my heart" in first rate style and in a subsequent humorous duet "Town and Country or Guardian and Ward" with Mr Pyne displayed a power that made us feel although deprived of one of natures great facilities she is wonderfully blessed with the gift of song".

28 May 1870 - "St Pancreas, Holborn and Bloomsbury Journal".

On Friday evening, the Blind Choral Class gave their annual conference at Birbeck Institute, Southampton Buildings, Holborn...............a good opening followed by selections from "Messiah" in which...........Madame Annie Pyne............and Mr G T Pyne took solo parts....................Mr G T Pyne with much humour sang "who'll serve the Queen" he was also encored. Madame Annie Pyne sang a "Cavitans Depiacer" (Rossini) accompanying herself on the pianoforte in the most brilliant manner..............a humorous duet between Madame Annie and Mr G T Pyne "Mr & Mrs Naggleton" was received with a perfect storm of applause and nothing would content but an encore .

10 December 1870 - "Marylebone Mercury".

"The Blind Choral Class" .

On Tuesday an evening chorus was given at St Mark's School, Marylebone. Madame Annie Pyne, a lady possessing pure soprano voice in her rendering of "With Verdure Clad" was all that could be desired was loudly applauded. Other vocalists included Mr Pyne.

5 August 1871 - "Marylebone Mercury".

The Red Lion Square Choir gave a concert (which was intended to be the last of the season) at the Lecture Hall, Seymour Street, Portman Square on Tuesday last......... The first piece calling for comment was "The Lark" by Madame Annie Pyne which was well sung that an encore was demanded and a scotch song substituted. Mr G T Pyne (the conductor) who is evidently a favourite both with the audience and the choir sang "The Scout" and as encore "I'm not myself at all, Molly Dear" with considerable humour, afterwards singing humorous duets with his wife. That lady late in the evening gave with much spirit "ell me my heart" and on an enthusiastic demand for endorsing "Home Sweet Home" with great feeling.

18 November 1871 - "London City Press".

Concert by Blind at Aldersgate Schools by Mr G T Pyne and H Chapman, conductors of the "Red Lion Square Choir of Blind Performers" Mr G Pyne conducting.............instrumental parts supported by.............Madame Annie Pyne........... Vocalists included Madame Annie Pyne

The 1871 census shows George and Annie living at 100 Aldersgate, St Botolph without London. The entry reads;

  • George T Pyne, head, married, aged 29, blind from the age of 3 months, a teacher of singing born Walworth, Surrey 
  • Annie J Pyne, wife, married, aged 29, blind from the age of 3 years, a teacher of piano and singing, born Bermondsey, Surrey
  • Ada Annie Pyne, daughter, unmarried, aged 1, born St Botolph without London,
  • Helena Pyne, George's mother, aged 62, no entry for 'where born' on original census.
  • Mary A Jones, aged 13, servant, born Bermondsey, Surrey.

Ada Annie Pyne was born on 19 November 1869 at 100 Aldersgate Street, Cripplegate, the daughter of George Thomas Pyne, teacher of music and "Amy" (per birth certificate) Jane Pyne formerly Scott. Annie registered the birth leaving her mark. The registrar must have misheard her Christian name. Ada was baptised on 27 November 1870 at St Bartholomew the Great, London. George was a professor of singing. 

Grace Florence Pyne was born on 23 September 1871 at 100 Aldersgate Street, Cripplegate. Her birth certificate shows her parents to be George Thomas Pyne and Annie Jane Pyne formerly Scott. Her fathers profession is given as a musician. Her mother registered the birth and only made her mark. Grace was baptised on 12 November 1871 at Jewin Street Methodist Chapel, a Wesleyan Chapel.

The couple's third daughter, Edith Eleanor Pyne was born on 21 February 1876 at 20 Edmund's Place, Cripplegate. London. Her birth certificate gives George's profession as vocalist. He registered the birth simply making his mark. No baptism has been traced. 

George Thomas Pyne died on 2 May 1878 at 20 Edmunds Place, London aged 36 years old. The cause of death is given as asthma. The informant was A Stone, resident of 20 Edmunds Place. 

By the time of the 1881 census Annie Jane Pyne had remarried and was living at 8 Osman Street, Tottenham, London (RG11/1385/108/42). The entry shows

  • Frederick K Swanson, head, married, aged 54, teacher of music, born Woolwich, Kent
  • Annie J Swanson, wife, married, aged 35 (should be 39?), teacher of music, born Bermondsey, Surrey
  • Ada A Pyne, daughter, aged 11, born (City), Middlesex
  • Grace F Pyne, daughter, aged 9, born (City), Middlesex
  • Edith E Pyne, daughter, aged 5, born (City), Middlesex
  • Wm T Smithers, visitor, married, aged 23, gasfitter, born Woolwich, Kent.

It seems William may have been George Thomas Pyne's nephew (see above)

Frederick Swanson and Annie Jane Pyne had married on 3 July 1880 at The Holy Trinity Church, Lee, London. Banns had earlier been read on 13 June 1880, 20 June 1880 and 27 June 1880 at St George, Bloomsbury. Frederick is described as being of the Parish of Holy Trinity, Lea, Kent and Annie Jane Pyne was of the parish of St George, Bloomsbury.

Annie is described as a widow of full age living at St George St, Bloomsbury. Her father is James George Scott, nautical instrument maker. Frederick is described as a bachelor of full age, an organist living in Lee. Only his fathers surname is entered on the certificate and he is described as a gentleman. The copy supplied by the General Registrar Office shows that both Frederick and Annie signed the register. The witnesses were Charles John Bond and Mary Ellen Cooke.

The only earlier records located of Frederic Swanson 

  • At the time of the 1841 census, aged 15, he may have been living with his mother Elizabeth Swanson and his sister Elizabeth Swanson, aged 13 at Seymour Street, Somers Town, St Pancras. The head of the household appears to be Miguel Del Rago, aged 60 and "born in foreign parts" his occupation is unclear, possibly canon, as is his relationship to Elizabeth and Frederick.  Was this Miguel del Riego ( Was Elizabeth his housekeeper? His death certificate in 1846 suggests that he was a canon of Ovcida, Spain 
  • At the time of the 1851 census when, aged 24 and unmarried he is living at 5 Park Row, Charlton and working as an organist at Blackheath Church. Interestingly the census notes that he too was blind. At the time he was living with housekeeper, Mary J Hampton, aged 39 and general servant, Elizabeth Smith, aged 15.
  • In 1855 and 1860 Frederick Swanson is listed as a "professor of music" at 5 Park Row, Blackheath Park in the Post Office Trade Directories. 

Various newspaper reports in the press suggest that Frederick, Annie and her daughters toured regional theatres performing as a family ensemble, for example:

2 January 1884 - "Kent & Sussex Courier"

The Servants Home, The Lodge, 45, St James Road, Tunbridge Wells, Kent.

Arrangements have been made with the "Blind Minstrels" from London to give a series of vocal and instrumental concerts in aid of the above institution . To be held

  • Monday January 8th - St James Boys schoolrooms
  • Wednesday January 10th - Young Mans Hall, Vale Road
  • Thursday January 11th - St Marks School room, Broadwater
  • Friday January 12th - Parochial Hall, Southborough

Doors open at 7.30 p.m. To commence 8 p.m. Carriages may be ordered at 9.45 pm. Artistes

  • Mr Swanson
  • Madame Swanson Pyne
  • Miss Pyne
  • Miss Grace Pyne
  • Mr Freeman

For further particulars see handbills.

16 April 1887 - "Hastings and St Leonards Observer"

"An evening concert at the Assembly Rooms, St Leonards by the Swanson Pyne family The family consists of Madame Swanson Pyne, Miss Ada Pyne, Miss Grace Pyne, Miss Edith Pyne, Miss Howard, Mr Henry and Mr Swanson who "although blind acted as accompanist in the most efficient manner"

21 May 1887 - "Hastings and St Leonards Observer"

Concert, last Friday evening, the Swanson Pyne Family, with assistance of a number of local gentleman carried out a capital concert at the public hall................commenced with.................the musicians were..........Mr Swanson, pianoforte.....................followed by a trio "Memory" by Madame Swanson Pyne and Misses Grace & Ada Pyne.

10 December 1887 - "Hastings and St Leonards Observer"

"The Swanson Pyne Family's Farewell" .

This family whose concerts on the parade during the summer gave two final farewell entertainments in the Crush Room of the Royal Concert Hall on Thursday afternoon and evening. Programme presented by Mr & Mrs Swanson - Pyne, the Misses Grace, Ada and Edith Pyne, Miss Annie Somersfield and Mr C R Payne.

The performance started with the Madigral from "The Mikado" "Brightly dawns our wedding day" which was followed by "The Pretty Little Flower" duet from Ruddigore by Miss Grace Pyne and Mr Payne

Miss Edith Pyne , a young lady of 12 years old contributed Arne's "When Daisies Pied". Mrs Pyne sung artistically Rossini Cavatine "Di Piacer" and Arditri's "Beauties Sleep" and also took part with her daughters in the trio "Memory" and with Mr Pyne and Mr Payne in "The Magic Wove Scarf".

Miss Ada Pyne was recalled for "The Lost Chord" and gave "Little Buttercup" and Miss Grace Pyne gained a similar complement for a "Penny for your Thoughts" and replied with "Cockles & Mussells"

Miss Summerfield " a little 9 year old pupil of Mrs Pyne played a piano solo in exemplification of the fact , as Mr Pyne pointed out to the audience that blind people are capable of teaching. The little pianist was encored and contributed "Home Sweet Home", the chorus of bridesmaids "Fair is Rose" from Ruddigore was well received and several part songs made up the programme which passed off very successfully, The family we may remark is obliged to leave Hastings for Mrs Pyne's health". 

Annie appears to have recovered and on 13 October 1888 the Isle of Wight Observer reports on the family's farewell concert at the Town Hall following at series of concerts over the summer at Esplanade Gardens. 

A couple of years later it appears that the family had fallen on hard times for in the Kentish Mercury dated 6 June 1890, the following appears "a concert will be given in the Lecture Hall adjoining the Congregational Church, Blackheath on Wednesday 11 June, for the benefit of Mr F Swanson, the blind organist, who for many years was engaged at St Michael's Church, Blackheath, also Holy Trinity, Lee and at Lee Chapel. Mr Swanson is at present without appointment, and in very reduced circumstances. Amongst the artistes announced to sing on the occaison is Madame Swanson Pyne, the blind soprano" 

By 1891 two of George and Annie Pyne's daughters had married, but both were living with her and her third husband at 96 Court Hill Road, Lewisham, Kent. The entry reads

  • Frederic Swanson, head, aged 64, singer, born Woolwich, Kent
  • Annie J Swanson, wife, aged 44 (should be 49?), singer, born Bermondsey, London
  • Ada A Fraser, daughter, married, aged 21, born London City (no occupation given)
  • Grace G Taylor, daughter, married, aged 19, operatic artist, born London City
  • Edith E Pyne, daughter, aged 15, born London City (no occupation given)
  • Frederick Fraser, grandson, aged 11 months, born Lewisham, Kent
  • Reginald G Taylor, grandson, aged 4 months, born Lewisham, Kent
  • Marian Billings, niece, aged 20, born Peckham, Surrey

The 1891 Electorial Register shows Frederick Swanson as resident at 96 Court Hill Road, but eligible to vote because of qualifying property at 96 Court Hill Road and 30 Ladywell Park.  He is also listed at 96 Court Hill Road in the 1893 electoral register. 

In the years between 1893 and 1901, Annie's husband Frederick appears to have died. Two possible records have been traced of his burial, one on 17 December 1892 in Lewisham and one on 4 February 1894 at St Marylebone Cemetary. 

In 1893 Annie, described as "Madame Swanson Pyne, late organist of Elizabethan Grammar School, Tooley Street" is advertising her annual concert in the Kentish Mercury. Does this suggest that Frederick is more likely to have died in 1892?  

So by 1901 Annie Swanson having been widowed again, was boarding with Mark Allen, a 63 year old self employed ship porter (docks) and his 56 year old wife Sarah at 269 Halley Road, East Ham, Essex. The occupants of the house include:

  • Annie Swanson, boarder (head), widow, aged 60, teacher of music on own account at home, blind,
  • Edith Pine (transcribed as Line, but looks more like Pine on original return and the age fits), boarder, aged 25, born Bermondsey. An occupation is given. This is not really legible, but could be actress,
  • Constance Pine (transcribed as Line), boarder, aged 4, born Bermondsey.

In 1911 Ann J Swanson, aged 72 and "of private means" was living with her daughter Ada A Fraser (see below) at 116 Third Avenue, Manor Park East, West Ham. She is shown as having 6 children of which 3 survived.  

Ann Jane Swanson died on 5 January 1921 aged 84 years old, at Central House, Leytonstone.  She is described as the widow of Frederick Swanson, organist,  of 143 Carlyle Road, East Ham, London. The cause of death was senility and gangrene feet!. It is noted that there was no PM (post mortem). The informant who registered the death the following day was her niece A.S Howard of 40 First Avenue, Manor Park.  

The informant was Annie Sophia Howard, wife of Edward David Howard (born 13 December 1860) who was the son of Ann Jane Swanson's half sister Louise Knight (Appendix O).  

Ann Jane Swanson appears to have been living with her daughter Edith Pennett formerly Constance nee Pyne prior to her death (see below). 

  • Ada Annie Fraser nee Pyne

Ada Annie Pyne had been born on 19 November 1869 at 100 Aldersgate Street, Cripplegate, the daughter of George Thomas Pyne, teacher of music and "Amy" (per birth certificate) Jane Pyne formerly Scott. Ada was baptised on 27 November 1870 at St Bartholomew.

 In 1881, aged 11 she is living with her mother and step-father at Osman Street, Tottenham.

In 1891, aged 21, Ada A Fraser is living with her mother and step father at 96 Court Hill Road, Lewisham. With her is her 11 month old son Frederick Fraser.

Ada Annie Pyne had married William Alexander Fraser on 3 March 1890 at St Andrews Church,  Kettering. Ada is described as a 20 year old spinster, a vocalist living in Northall. Her father was George Thomas Pyne, violinist. William Alexander Fraser was a 24 year old bachelor, also a vocalist from Northall. His father was Thomas Alexander Fraser, butler. The witnesses were Alfred and Barbara Jillians (?).

Frederick Alexander Thomas Fraser had been born on 19 April 1890 (Reg Gen June Qtr 1890 Lewisham 1d 1092). He was baptised on 13 November 1892 at St Mary Major, Exeter, Devon!

Later records indicate that William and Ada had another son Ernest William Fraser born on 24 August 1892 He, too, was baptised on 13 November 1892 at St Mary Major, Exeter, Devon!. 

William and Ada had three more children

  • Cyril Archibald Fraser. Born 5 September 1894 in Bermondsey (Reg Gen Dec Qtr 1894 St Olave, Southwark 1D 237),
  • Miriam Eleanor Fraser. Born 1897 in Bermondsey (Reg Gen March Qtr 1897 St Olave, Southwark 1d 311)
  • Lawrence David Fraser. Born 13 October 1899 in Bermondsey  (Reg Gen Dec Qtr 1899 St Olave, Southwark 1d 237)  

"David Lawrence" Fraser was baptised on 25 March 1900 in St James, Bermondsey, the son of William Alexander Fraser and Ada Annie Fraser of 14, Kempton Road, East Ham and father William was a comedian. 

In 1901 Ada A Fraser, aged 31, born London, was living at 393 Shirrard(?) Road, Forest Gate, East Ham with her children, Cyril, aged 6, Miriam, aged 4 and Lawrence, aged 1 year 6 months.  All the children are shown as having been born in Bermondsey. Ada is described as a music hall artist. Also living at the same address were Mary Jones, widow, aged 60, daughter Louisa Jones. aged 27, book folder (binder) and Mary's grandsons, Wallis Boome, aged 13 and George Boome, aged 9.

It is unclear where Ada's husband William Alexander Fraser or their sons Frederick and Ernest would have been when the 1901 census was taken but 

  • Frederick Fraser of 20, Cranham Road was admitted to "Galley Wall Road School", Southwark on 3 December 1894. No father's details are given. 
  • Ernest William Fraser of 20, Cranham Road was a pupil at "Galley Wall Road School", Southwark, London from 26 April 1897 (father - "Fred"). 

In 1911 Ada A Fraser was living at 116 Third Avenue, Manor Park East Ham. She was 40 years old and described as "at home" .

Originally there was an entry above, I presume for her husband William Fraser but this has been scored out and is not legible. Ada initially describes herself as a wife of 22 years, but both these entries are scored out and her position in household altered to "head". This is the original form completed by Ada and I wonder why these entries were made. Was William around, but just not at home at the time or had something else happened? Again no other record for William Alexander Fraser has been traced. Also at the address at the time were 14 year old daughter Miriam and 11 year old son Lawrence as well as Ada's mother Ann J Swanson

Again, it's not clear where William and Ada's son's Frederick Alexander Fraser, Ernest William Fraser or Cyril Archibald Fraser were when the 1911 census was taken. 

Later records suggest that William Alexander Fraser had died by 1917, but his death has not been traced. 

I had been told that Ada had five sons and one daughter, which is almost correct. However I had also been told that all of her sons had perished in the Great War and that she and her remaining family had moved to Australia where they too all died in tragic circumstances. However this also appears not to be the case.

In 1921 Ada Fraser,  a 51 year old widow,  was living in Walkerville, Essex, Ontario, Canada with her 21 year old son Lawrence, her widowed daughter, Miriam, aged 24 and her three grandchildren. The census indicates they had arrived in 1911

Ada Annie Fraser died on 30 January 1934, aged 64, in Windsor, Essex, Canada. The death certificate describes her as the daughter of Alexander Pine and Annie Pine nee Scott, born 19 November 1869 in London. Although the father's name is incorrect this is clearly Ada. The certificate also states that she was a widow, her occupation is given as a housekeeper and she died of double pneumonia. The certificate also notes that she had been resident in Canada for 22 years. This confirms that the family emigrated in about 1911. The informant was Cyril Fraser of 1035 François Road, East Windsor. Ada was buried at Victoria Memorial on 2 February 1934.

All of William and Ada's children also appear to have settled in Canada.

William Alexander Fraser and Ada Annie Fraser nee Pyne's son Frederick Alexander Thomas Fraser, a fitter, aged 24, married Emily Amelia Winnifred Walton, a tailoress, aged 23, on 19 August 1914 at Clinton, Huron, Ontario, Canada. No occupation is given for William Alexander Fraser which could indicate that he had died by 1914. Emily had been born in 1891 in London, the daughter of Edward Richard Walton, a gardener and Louisa Kimber. Frederick  Alexander Thomas Fraser, aged 27, husband of Emily A W Fraser enlisted on 17 February 1917. They had two children:

  • Mildred Louie Fraser. Born 19 March 1916 in Goderich. Mildred married George Edward Fellowes on 25 August 1937. George was the son of William Henry Fellowes and Lillian Maud Key. They had three children. In 1957 they were living at 16, Ford Boulevard, Riverside, Essex East and George was working for Ford Motor Company, George died in May 1993. Mildred died on 17 January 2002. 
  • Richard Walton Fraser "Dick". Born 15 January 1922 in Goderich. Richard married Pauline Roberta Smith on 8 July 1943 in Windsor, Essex. They had two children. Pauline died on 21 May 2010 in Windsor, Essex. Richard died on  8 February 2013 in Tecumseh, Essex. 

In 1931 Frederick and Emily were living at 437, Glidden, Essex, Ontario. Frederick, aged 41 was a Millwright in an Iron Factory.  Emily, aged 40 was a home maker. Mildred was 15 and Richard was 9 years old. Frederick Alexander Thomas Fraser died on 19 January 1983. His wife "Winnifred Walton" died the same year. Both were buried at Clinton Public Cemetery, Huron. 

William Fraser and Ada Fraser nee Pyne's son Ernest William Fraser, a labourer, aged 22, married Katherine Jane Fox, aged 20, daughter of James Alma Fox and Katherine Smith at Goderich, Ontario on 28 October 1914. The witnesses include Frederick A T Fraser and Alma Mary Fox. Ernest William Fraser, aged 24, a mill hand from Goderich, Ontario, husband of Katherine Fraser enlisted in the Canadian Overseas Expeditionary Forces on 4 January 1916. He survived and in 1921 they are living at South Street, Goderich. Ernest was a labourer, the census suggests he arrived in Canada in 1904 some 7 years before his mother? They had a daughter  

  • Alma Fraser. Born 1920 in Goderich. Alma never married and died in 1960 and was buried at Belleville Cemetary. 

Katherine Jane "Kitty" Fraser, aged 32, died on 3 December 1926 from pulmonary tuberculosis and was buried at Prospect Cemetary. Ernest remarried on 6 July 1929 in York. He was a 36 year old plumber, a widower, the son of William George Fraser!! and Ada Pyne. His second wife was Evelyn Annie Trimbel, a 25 year old spinster, printer, daughter of Ernest John Trimbel and Alice Neve.  In 1931 Ernest and Evelyn were living at 22, Varsity Road, 4019, Dandar St West, York, Ontario. Ernest was a 48 year old plumber for a hospital. Evelyn was a 37 year old homemaker. Daughter Alma was 11 years old. In 1958 Ernest and Evelyn were living at 4675 Dundas Street, York West, Ontario. Ernest is described as "retired". 

William and Ada's son Cyril Archibald Fraser, aged 20 had already enlisted in the 33rd Infantry Battalion of The Canadian Expeditionary Force (491302), on 12 August 1915. At the time his next of kin is given as Mrs Ada Annie Fraser. He sailed for England on 13 March 1916He was discharged on 1 September 1917 and returned to Canada as medically unfit

On 18 May 1918 Cyril Archibald Fraser, aged 23, a machinist, son of Thomas Fraser and Ada Annie Fraser nee Pyne, married Violet Elizabeth Godfrey, aged 18, daughter of George F Godfrey and Emily Eliza Carr. In 1921 the family were living with Violet's parents in Ford City, Essex North, Ontario. The census indicates Ernest had arrived in 1912. This and later records suggest that they had six children: 

  • Ernest George Fraser. Born 1919. Ernest married Eleanor Deskoneski on 13 May 1939 in Windsor, Essex, Ontario. Ernest was a 20 year old labourer. Ellen was 18 years old, the daughter of Nick Deskoneski and Mary Autovoich. Ernest was an anglican and Eleanor was a Greek catholic. Ernest died in 1983 and was buried at Green Lawn Memorial Gardens. Eleanor died in 2005. 
  • Viola Emily Fraser. Born 1922. Viola married John Bernyk on 14 March 1942. They had two children. John Bernyk died on 17 January 1988 at Hotel Dieu Hospital, Windsor, Ontario. Viola Bernyk died on 9 September 2017 aged 95 years old. She was buried in Greenlawn Memorial Gardens, Oldcastle, Essex County.
  • Lillian Elsie Fraser. Born 20 December 1927. Lilian married Basil Happy. They had five children. Records suggest that they lived in New York between 1988 and 1992. Basil died on 13 May 1998 at the Metropolitan Campus, Windsor. Lilian died on 22 June 2005 at Hotel Dieu Hospital. 
  • Shirley Dorothy Fraser. Born 31 October 1929. Shirley married Theodore Joseph (Pete) Laliberie. On 31 October 1949 Shirley crossed from Canada into the USA with her husband who was already legally resident. They were to reside in Detroit, Michigan. In 1950 Theodore and Shirley were living in Wayne, Detroit with Shirley's sister and brother in law. Theodore was a 20 year salesman of hardware at a wholesale warehouse. Shirley was 20 years old. Their 1 year old daughter was living with them. Shirley applied for naturalization on 6 May 1968. They had four children. Theodore died on 9 August 1984 in Royal Oak, Oakland, Michigan. Shirley died on 21 September 2008 in Macomb, Michigan. 
  • June Elaine Fraser. Born 3 June 1934. June married Rudy Harold Temple on 3 September 1955. They had two children. June Temple died on 27 August 2011 and was buried at Green Lawn Memorial Gardens, Oldcastle, Ontario. Rudy died on 1 May 2016
  • Patricia Fraser. Born 1935. Pat married Patrick Joseph Kavanaugh on 20 April 1957.  Patricia Kavanagh died on 29 December 2011 and was buried on 4 January 2012

In 1931 Cyril and Violet were living at 151, Charlotte, East Windsor, Ontario. Cyril, aged 36 was an inspector in an automobile factory. Interestingly he describes his origin as "scotch" and says both parents were born in Scotland which was clearly not the case. Violet, aged 32 was a homemaker. Ernest was 12 years old, Viola was 9 years old, Lilian was 3 and Shirley was 1 year old. Cyril was the informant when his mother Ada died in 1934.  His wife Violet died on 2 May 1981 and was buried on 5 May 1981. Cyril A Fraser, aged 91, died on 29 May 1985 and was buried at Green Lawn Memorial Gardens, Oldcastle, Essex, Ontario. His obituary describes him, as retired from the Ford Motor Company, a life member and past president of Royal Canadian Legion. He served overseas in World War I in Princess Pats Light Infantry. As well as his children he leaves 15 grandchildren and 13 great grandchildren. 

William and Ada's daughter Miriam Eleanor Fraser had married Stanley Herbert Moore, but she had been widowed by the time that the 1921 census was taken. It seems likely that her husband Private Stanley Herbert Moore enlisted on 25 November 1915 and was killed in action on 10 August 1918?   "Whilst advancing with his company during the attack north west of Fouquecourt, he was hit in the heart and head and instantly killed by enemy machine gun bullets". 

At the time the census was taken on 7 June 1921 Miriam was living with her widowed mother Ada in Walkerville, Essex, Ontario with her three children:

  • Frederick Ernest Moore. Born 8 November 1913 in Huron. Frederick married Albertine Maria Larsh on 28 March 1933 in Windsor, Essex, Ontario. Albertine died in 1979 in Canada.
  • Stanley Moore. Born 1916
  • Winnifred Moore. Born 1917

It appears Miriam would have only been 16 years old when she had her first child. On 2 December 1922, Miriam remarried, her second husband was Frederick Robert Thomas Arnold.  Her husband was from Michigan, Detroit. Frederick Robert Thomas Arnold died on 26 June 1944 at Camp Borden, Simcoe. His next of kin was Mrs Miriam Arnold of 1624 Hickory Road, Windsor, Essex. 

Finally William and Ada's son Lawrence David Fraser, when aged 18 also enlisted in the Forestry and Railway Construction Depot of the Canadian Overseas Expeditionary Force (2626963) on 3 December 1917. He had previously been a sailor. He gave his mother as next of kin. At the time he confirms that his father had died and he was one of two sons living at home with his widowed mother. He sailed from St John's, Canada on 19 December 1917 on the S S Grampian, arriving in Glasgow on 30 December 1917.  He served in C F C in Epsom, England. He was discharged on 12 July 1919 and returned to Canada.

On 22 September 1923  he married Elsie May Wilmot, aged 21, daughter of Albert Wilmot and Mary Cooper. At the time of his marriage 23 year old Lawrence is described as a machinist. Elsie had been born on 5 October 1901 and arrived in Quebec on 6 August 1911. They had two daughters

  • Gloria Irene Fraser. Born 1927. Gloria married Francis Frederick (Frank) Porter on 20 October 1945 at St Andrews Anglican Church, Windsor, Ontario.  They had two daughters. Francis Frederick Porter died in 1966, aged 41 years. His obituary states that he was in the Royal Canadian air force from 1943 to 1945 and subsequently a maintenance mechanic with the Detroit - Canada Channel Company.  Gloria Irene Porter died on 4 February 2003 at Windsor, Ontario.
  • Doris Elaine Fraser. Born 16 October 1930. Doris married Wilfred E Ball on 17 May 1956 in Angola, Indiana. They had three children. Wilfred died on 12 April 1985. Doris Elaine Ball died on 12 July 2017 in Windsor, Ontario. 

In 1931 Lawrence and Elsie were living at 155, Charlotte, East Windsor, Ontario. Lawrence, aged 31 was a service station operator. Elsie was a 29 year old homemaker. Gloria was 4 years old and Doris was 7 months old. Lawrence David Fraser (Laurie) died on 25 July 1972 and was buried in Victoria Memorial Gardens, Windsor, Essex, Ontario. 

Elsie Mary Fraser died on 2 August 1994 at Metropolitan General Hospital.  

  •  Grace Florence Ponting formerly Green Taylor nee Pyne

Grace Florence Pyne was born on 23 September 1871 at 100 Aldersgate Street, Cripplegate, London, the daughter of George Thomas and Annie Jane Pyne (Reg Gen Dec Qtr 1871 London City 1c 14).

Grace Florence Pyne was baptised on 12 November 1871 at Jewry Street Methodist Church. The family was still living at 100 Aldersgate Street.

In 1881, Grace, aged 9 was living with her mother and step father and 2 sisters at 8 Osman Street, Tottenham, London.

By the age of 18 Grace was on the stage. The "D'Oyly Carte - Who Was Who" website confirms that she was engaged to appear on 7 January 1890 as Giulia in the first American production of the Gondoliers at the Park Theatre, New York. The production was not successful and closed in February 1890. When it was launched again at Palmers Theatre Grace no longer had a named part.

Returning to Britain later on in the year she joined the D'Oyly Carte Opera Company E and filled in on occasion as Casilda in The Gondoliers in October 1890 and December 1890 and January 1892 and February 1892.

The following press reports have been located:

11 October 1890 - "The Era, London".

"Miss Grace Pyne as Casilda acts gracefully and sings with effect".

22 December 1891 - "Gloucester Citizen"

"Iolanthe - Mr D'Oyly Carte's Opera Company at "New Theatre and Opera House. Leading fairies Misses Grace Pyne, Marie Arnold and Beatrice Perry"

19 January 1892 - "Exeter and Plymouth Gazette" .

"The Gondoliers at Exeter Theatre The part of Casilda was essayel by Miss Grace Pyne who infused considerable life into the character and supported a taking voice with a charming appearance"

It appears it was here that Grace met her first husband. Tenor Joseph Green Taylor appeared on tour with Company C as Leonard Meryll in The Yeoman of the Guard in December 1888 and later toured with Company E appearing as Marco in The Gondoliers in April 1890 filling in for the regular Marco.

Joseph Green Taylor and Grace Florence Pyne were married in Derby on 5 May 1890.  The certificate shows that they were both of full age and living at 5 Hill Brow, Forester Street, Derby. Joseph is described as an actor. His father was David Green Taylor, deceased, a former publican. Grace's father is given as George Thomas Pyne, musician. Both signed the register. The witnesses were Alfred and Marie Loftree.

Joseph Green Taylor had been baptised on 18 September 1859 at All Saints, Birmingham, the son of David Green Taylor, publican and Mary Ann Harris of Graham Street, Birmingham. They had married on 4 October 1858 in Harborne, Staffordshire. In 1861 they were living at No 17 (front), Camden Grove, Birmingham and David was a retail brewer. In 1871 they were at Brauston Street, Birmingham, Joseph and his younger brother were scholars and father David is now a 41 year old clerk. It appears that their mother had died and father David had remarried. It is not certain where Joseph was in 1881, although the census shows a "Joseph Taylor", aged 21, born Birmingham, was a soldier in the 6th regiment, living in "The Sailors Home and the Destitute Sailors Asylum", Well Street, Whitechapel.  

Although making a living, neither Joseph or Grace appear to have been the most successful of the D'Oyly Carte's performers. An article from 'The Gilbert and Sullivan Newsletter Archive' describes Greene Taylor with the Gondoliers in April 1890 playing at Ashton-under Lyne, Macclesfield, Derby, Wolverhampton, Dudley and Gloucester and whilst quoting an article which describes him as showing 'considerable aptitude as Marco' goes on to describe him as of 'average ability'.

Joseph Greene and Grace Florence Taylor had two surviving children

  • Reginald Green Taylor. Born 7 March 1891 at 96 Court Hill Road, Lewisham (Reg Gen June Qtr 1891 Lewisham 1d 1174).
  • Muriel Green Taylor. Born on 14 September 1893 at 173 Saint James Road, Bermondsey.  Joseph's occupation is given as actor. Grace registered the birth. Muriel Taylor was baptised on 11 October 1893 at St Anne's, Bermondsey.  

At the time of the 1891 census Grace was living with her mother and step father at 96 Court Hill Road, Lewisham. She is described as an operatic artist and had recently given birth to her first son Reginald G Taylor who was 4 months old. Joseph Green Taylor was not present at the address at the time the census was taken.

Joseph and Grace continued with their careers after the birth of their children:

13 November 1894 - "Norwich Post", Suffolk, England.

"Morocco Bound" at Bury Theatre. Mr Greene Taylor is to be congratulated upon his successful interpretation of the character of Squire Higgins, the retired cosher who was "not ashamed of it" His accent was mostly striking and his wonderful facial expressions and numerous feats of agility caused roars of laughter. Amongst the ladies Miss Grace Pyne gave a finished rendering of the role of Comtesse de le Blague".

1 December 1894 - "The Era" , London.

"Bliss Grace Pyne who possesses a powerful voice is encored for her singing"

28 December 1895 - "Huddersfield Chronicle", West Yorkshire.

"The Christmas pantomime at the Theatre Royal, "Cinderella". Miss Grace Pyne being a graceful and beautiful fairy. A word of praise must be given to Mr Greene Taylor for his discretion in not over doing, but at the same time making the most of the part of Buttons".

The D'Oyly Carte 'Who Was Who' mentions that Joseph Green Taylor later appeared in London as Sergeant O'Flynn in the musical King Kodak at Terry's Theatre in 1894

27 June 1896 - "The Era", London

"Newmarket". Miss Grace Pyne amusing as the easily irritated and irritating Mrs Napoleon Jones"

According to the Dreadnought Seaman's admissions, on 24 May 1897, Joseph Green Taylor, a 37 year old actor, C of E, born Birmingham,  was admitted to 73 South Lambert Road, with a fractured patella. He was discharged on 13 July 1897 after 51 days in hospital for convalescence. Does this indicate that Green Taylor had previously been in the navy? 

Their careers went on:

7 October 1898 - "The Derry Journal", Londonderry.

"Mr Branscombb 3 Company, The Opera House. The present engagement in the IOUI theatre ensuring extensive patronage from Olty playgoers "Morocco Bond" In their respective roles............Miss Grace Pyne..............all dressed nicely and enunciate their passages of the dialogue with an intelligence which invests their comparatively minor parts with some interest. Mr Greene Taylor shows the esquire to be a very funny fellow".

At the time that the 1901 census was taken Joseph Greene Taylor, aged 40, born Warwick, Birmingham and in the theatrical profession and Grace Taylor, aged 28 also in the theatrical profession were boarding in Bradford with Albert P Kaberry a commercial traveller and his wife Eliza.

Their children Reginald aged 10 and Muriel aged 7 were 'visiting' William Worpell, a joiner, aged 64 and his wife Ellen aged 63 at 73 South Lambeth Road, Lambeth.

On 8 December 1903 Grace Florence Green Taylor of 33 London Road, Clapham petitioned for divorce. In her petition she states that after their marriage she and Joseph had also lived at 33 South Lambeth Road in Surrey.

In April 1898 Joseph Green- Taylor had committed adultery with an unknown woman. Grace forgave him on this occasion and continued to live with him at South Lambeth Road but in May 1903 he once again committed adultery although on this occasion both the woman and the place are unknown.

The decree nisi was issued on 18 July 1904. And so it was not as I had assumed that Joseph and Grace divorced when Dudley came on the scene. However a further surprise coming out in the divorce petition was that the "petitioner and the said Joseph Green Taylor had issue of their said marriage six children of whom two are surviving, namely Reginald Green Taylor, aged 13 years and Muriel Green Taylor aged 10 years"

The divorce was reported in the press as follows:

19 July 1904 - Shields Daily Gazette, Tyne on Wear

(but also reported in Western Times, Devon on the same day and the Cheltenham Chronicle on 23 July).

"Theatrical Divorce Case".

"In the divorce court yesterday Mrs Grace Florence Green Taylor was granted a decree nisi because of the cruelty of her husband Joseph Green Taylor. Counsel said the parties who were both members of the theatrical profession, the petitioner being known as Grace Florence Pyne was a member of the late D'Oyly Carte Opera Company. Respondent was given to in temperance and temper and had several times struck his wife violent blows".

The divorce also formed part of an article in the Daily Mirror on 19 July 1904 entitled "Love Killed by cruelty - Divorce Court stories of four unhappy wives"

The report includes how they met through and how they were both known in the theatrical world as members of the D'Oyly carte, Green Taylor's unfaithfulness "once Mrs Taylor forgave an act of unfaithfulness and then he was as bad as ever" and cruelty to his wife "he struck her in the eye" as well as his attempts to gain forgiveness "I hope you will forgive me, as god is my witness that I hardly know how it all happened". 

On 12 December 1905 Grace, aged 30, married Dudley James Ponting, aged 26 (Chapter 13) at Lambeth Registry Office. Dudley states that he is the divorced husband of Mabel Annie Ponting formerly Clements. He describes himself as a music hall artiste, although I doubt that was the case and gives his address as 33 London Road, Stockwell. His father is recorded as William Ponting deceased, master linen draper. Grace describes herself as Grace Florence Green-Taylor, formerly Pyne, divorced wife of Joseph Green Taylor daughter of George Thomas Pyne, deceased musician. She also gives her address as 33 London Road, Stockwell. No occupation is given for Grace Florence who would have been a couple of months pregnant at the time. The witnesses were A H Pennett, Edith Pennett and A E Morgan and one other. A H Pennett, was Arthur Henry Pennett, theatrical property master who had married Grace's sister Edith the month before (see below).

Grace continued to perform on stage after she married Dudley, although it is thought by that time she had left the D'Oyly Carte and was appearing in musical theatre. A few names she mentioned knowing or appearing with include "Nellie Wallace", "Daisy James", "Little Tich", "Fred Karno" and "Bransby Williams". It is believed she performed at the Hippodrome in Eastbourne. She also mentioned a "George Black" who was an impresario or agent in connection with her work.  

Joseph Greene Taylor died on 13 September 1907 aged 48 at General Hospital, Birmingham. His death certificate describes him as Joseph Greene Taylor , an "actor in musical comedy company of Theatre Royal New Street, Birmingham". The cause of death was "morbus cordis" and "syncope", basically heart disease and loss of consciousness restricting the blood flow to the brain,. "Morbis Cordis" was often used where the exact cause of death was unknown but they were sure it was natural causes. The informant was A E Thompson, sister in charge of the ward at the General Hospital. (Reg Gen Sept Qtr 1907 Birmingham (1837-1924) 6d 76).

Described in the probate records as "Greene Taylor of Lyric Theatre, Shaftesbury Avenue", limited administration was granted on 13 November 1907 to Grace Florence Ponting, described in the records as "wife of Dudley James Ponting". His effects were valued at £70 6s 11d (about £5k in 2006).

As described in Chapter 13 Grace and Dudley went on to have four children together

  • Gracie Joan Ponting. Born 27 July 1906 (Reg Gen Sept Qtr 1906 Hendon 3a 338).
  • William Dudley Ponting. Born 22 October 1907 (Reg Gen Dec Qtr 1907 Hendon 3a 312)
  • Arthur James Ponting. Born 30 July 1909 (Reg Gen Sept Qtr 1909 Hailsham 2b 79)
  • Maude Jeannette Mary Ponting. Born 14 May 1913 (Reg Gen June Qtr 1913 Hailsham 2b 152)

And lived together in both London and Sussex (where they were at the time that the 1911 census was taken) before separating sometime in the late 1920's.

In 1921 Dudley James Ponting, aged 43 and Grace Florence Ponting, aged 46 were living at 28, Castellain Road, Maida Vale,  both described as "boarding house keepers. All four children remain at home and were at school, Gracie Joan was 14, William Dudley was 13, Arthur James was 11 and Maude Jeanette Mary Ponting, was aged 8 years old. There were three boarders, Emma Gooding, aged 25, a hosiery shop assistant at Penterthy Hosiery, Oxford Street, Cecil Jocham, aged 30, from Cape Town, South Africa, a drapery traveller working on his own account, and Gordon Ellis, aged 32, an out of work advertising agents assistant. Also listed is Francis Annie Helen Eves, aged 20, domestic servant employed by Pontings Boarding House.   

Mrs Ponting at 28, Castellain Road, Maida Vale first appears in the London telephone directory in 1921. Between 1926 to 1928 Mrs D Ponting is listed at Castellain Road. The electoral register also confirms Dudley and Grace were at the address in 1921, 1924 and 1926.

The photograph below was taken in 1925 and was given to her daughter Gracie Joan Ponting

In 1928 Gracie Florence Ponting was still on the electoral register at 28, Castellian Road, Maida Vale. Also listed at the address are William Robert Mealing and Winifred Whiting. In 1929 her son William Dudley Ponting, and Winifred and Stella Whiting were at the address. In 1930 Gracie, her son William and John and Winifred Ford  William and Gabrielle Mealing are listed. In 1931, Gracie, son William, John, Winifred  and Marjory Ford, William, Gabrielle and Edith Mealing and Emma Gooding are all at 28, Castellian Road.

In 1939 Grace was living with her niece Winifred Elsie Garside  at 99B Park Road, Blackpool. She is described as being 'independent'.

When her husband Dudley died in 1943, Grace was living at 78 Bisham Road, Blackpool.

Grace Florence Ponting lived out her last years with her daughter, Gracie Joan, her son -in-law, James Richard Barton and grandsons at Bywood, Ninfield, East Sussex.

The photograph below showing Grace Florence, her son William Dudley and daughter Gracie Joan was kindly provided by Monique McCall  

Grace Florence Ponting died on 1 March 1949 and was buried in Ninfield Churchyard. 

The lives of Dudley and Grace's children are covered in Chapter 13.

Both of Grace's children from her first marriage were living with her at The Hollies, Boreham Street at the time the 1911 census was taken

In 1911 her son Reginald Greene-taylor was a butchers assistant. He married twice. On 31 December 1921 he married Edith Maria Fry formerly Crawford at Lambeth Registrar Office. Reginald was 31 years old, a wholesale butcher, the son of Joseph Greene Taylor (deceased), actor. Edith was 34 years old, the divorced wife of William Henry Fry and the daughter of Andrew Crawford (deceased), butler. The witnesses were E J Hall and M HodgerEdith Maria Crawford had married William Henry Fry on 18 January 1911 (Reg Gen March Qtr. 1911 Lambeth 1d 377). They divorced in 1918 (National archives J77/1404/3127), . When the census was taken on 24 April 1921 Edith Maria Fry was living with her mother Elizabeth Crawford, aged 69. Her mother is shown as married and running a bakery business, but her husband is not listed. Edith Fry. aged 34, is shown as her daughter, but described as a visitor. She too is shown as married, no occupation is given. Two children are listed

  • Cyril Fry. Born 28 April 1916.  Cyril was still single and living with his grandmother Elizabeth Crawford in 1939, Cyril Fry of 103D Norwood Road, Herne Hill, London died on 19 December 1992
  • Edith Dee Fry, Born 12 January 1920. Edith was born after her mother and William Henry Fry divorced and it is believed that she was in fact Reginald's daughter (see below).
Also shown at the address is Mr R Greene Taylor. aged 32, single, a "scalesman butcher" for W W Freeman of 202, Central Markets, LondonEdith Maria Greene-taylor of 119 Norwood Road, Herne Hill, Surrey died on 27 May 1925 at Charing Cross Hospital, Strand. Probate was granted to Reginald Greene Taylor, meat salesman. 

Reginald Green-Taylor re-married on 23 January 1926 at St Lukes Church, Kensington. His second wife was Elizabeth Charlotte Potter. Reginald was a 35 year old widower , a "wholesale meat agent". Elizabeth was a 27 year old widow, the daughter of Joseph Potter, watchmaker and jeweller. One of the witnesses was Reginald's mother. Elizabeth had previously married to Percy Eden in Edmonton in 1918 (Reg Gen March Qtr. 1918 Edmonton 3a 1209). Percy Eden died in 1920 (Reg Gen March 1920 Edmonton 3a 762). 

In 1939 Reginald and Elizabeth were living at 107 Newlands Park, Lewisham and Reginald was a meat salesman at Smithfield Market. Reginald and Elizabeth had a son, Colin Greene-taylor, born on 20 October 1939. In 1945 Reginald and Elizabeth were living at 107, Newlands Park, Sydenham.  "Reg"  and "Charlotte" are pictured below along with "Dee" and "Colin"

Elizabeth C Greene-taylor died in 1961 (Reg Gen March 1961 Lewisham 5d 63).   Reginald Greene-taylor died in 1975 (Reg Gen Sept 1975 Lewisham 14 0640). 

In 1939, Edith (and Reginald's) daughter Edith Green-taylor was living with Arthur Ponting and his wife "Hylda" Ponting at 172, Broom Road, Twickenham. She was a butchers assistant (sales). Arthur was Reginald Green Taylor's half brother (Chapter 14). In 1944 Edith married Alfred Benjamin Peters. In 1945 they were living with Reginald and Elizabeth at 107, Newlands Park, Sydenham.  Alfred died on 3 December 1961. Edith Peters of 13 Fitchet Close, Langley Green, Crawley, West Sussex died on 11 May 1990.  

Reginald and Elizabeth's son Colin Greene-taylor married Ann V Waterman in 1961. In 1961 through to 1963 they were living at Newlands Road, Sydenham. In 1964 they were at Larkbere Road, SE26. They had one son. In later years they lived in Datchet Road, Colin died on 18 November 2007. 

Grace's daughter from her first marriage Muriel G Taylor married Bertram Dawes on 22 April 1915 at Manor Park Registry Office, London (Reg Gen June Qtr 1915 Wandsworth 1d 1704). The picture (below) of "Bert" was taken the same year as their marriage. It is believed that he was a member of 2/6th Sussex Battery RFA (Royal Field Artillery) along with his brother in law James Richard Barton (Volume III)

"Bert" and "Mue" had four children, all registered in Hailsham district.

  • Bertram Edwin Dawes. Born 30 August 1916.
  • Joan Mary Dawes. Born 9 April 1922.
  • Mavis Margaret Dawes. Born 25 March 1929
  • Lesley Joseph Dawes. Born 16 July 1932.

In 1921 Bert and Mue were living at Boreham Street with Bert's parents. Bert was 29 years old, a painter employed by his father's painting and glazing business "E & G Dawes". Mue was 27 years old. Their eldest son Bertram Edwin Dawes was 4 years old. 

In 1939 Bertram Dawes, a plumber working on his own account was living with his wife Muriel (pictured below) and family at Harts Yard, Hailsham.

Bert Dawes died on 5 March 1970 aged 78 years at The Rocks Cottages, Victoria Road, Herstmonceux. Muriel Dawes died on 25 February 1983. She had been living with her half sister Gracie Joan Barton at Bywood, Ninfield, prior to her death. 

Their son Bertram Edwin Dawes married Kathleen Rosina King on 28 August 1937 at Herstmonceux. Bertram was a 23 year old plumber, son of Bertram Dawes, plumber. Kathleen was 19 years old, the daughter of Samuel John King, roadmender. 

They had three children. In 1939 Bertram and family were living at 12, Harold Terrace, Battle. Bertram was a plumber and hot water fitter. Major Bertram Edwin Dawes (277581), Army Catering Corps. V was awarded an MBE in 1961 Queens Birthday honours.  

Bert died on 18 March 1998. Kathleen died on 17 November 2007.

Their daughter, Joan Mary Dawes was a war bride who married John Ross Maywood on 11 March 1944 (Reg Gen March Qtr 1944 Hailsham 2b 189). 

On 18 June 1946 Joan M Maywood and her daughter Jacqueline S Maywood, aged 1 year 10 months travel from Liverpool to Halifax on the "Letita". This seems to be a shipment of troops relatives and her husband is identified as "SGT B75558". The family visit the UK a few years later. On 22 December 1949 John, Joan and Jackie arrived in Liverpool on the "Franconia", they were going to stay in Boreham Street. On 23 September 1950 Joan and her daughter return to Montreal from Southampton on the Canberra. Joan was 28 years old at the time and her daughter Jacqueline was 6 years old. It is assumed that John had returned earlier. In 1962 they were living at 239, Roxton Road, Trinity, Toronto where John was a crane operator. 

Joan, Ross and their daughter are pictured below:

John Ross Maywood died in 1989. Joan Mary Maywood died on 2 January 2012 at Oakville, Montreal. Both are buried in Queensville Cemetary, Queensville, Ontario, 

Their daughter Margaret Mary Dawes married Kenneth Frederick Densham on 12 May 1951. They had two children. In 1965 they were living at Alexandra Grove, N12. Ken died in 2002.

Their son in Lesley Joseph Dawes married Hilda N Oliver in 1951. They had two children. Les died in 2001 in Devon.

  • Edith Eleanor Pennett formerly Constable nee Pyne

Edith Eleanor Pyne was born on 21 February 1876 at 20 Edmunds Place, Cripplegate, London, the daughter of George Thomas Pyne and Annie Jane Pyne, late Stroud formerly Scott. (Reg Gen June Qtr 1876 London City 1C 11).

Edith was living with her mother and step father at the time that the 1881 and 1891 censuses were taken (see above).

It appears that Edith may have been baptised on 3 April 1887 in St John the Evangelist, Upper St Leonards in Sussex. She was the daughter of George Thomas, a musician and his wife Annie of 8, Horntye Road, St Leonards?

If this is our Edith (as I'm sure it is) then she would have been eleven years old when she was baptised, although this is not apparent from the parish record . Her father had died in 1878, her mother had remarried and the newspaper reports referred to above show that Edith, her sisters, her mother and stepfather had been performing in the Hastings and St Leonards area. I wonder why she was baptised at that point? 8, Horntye Road, St Leonards is pictured below

As can be seen Edith was also a singer. Like her sister Grace,  she went on to be a member of the D'Oyly Carte. In 1894 Edith Pyne she travelled on the Campania from Liverpool to New York arriving on 19 March 1894. Aged 18, she gives her occupation as "music". She is listed with a number of others who give their occupation likewise including 20 year old Millicent Pyne (no known relation at present) who was also a member of Gilbert and Sullivan's troupe. This ties in with Edith having been, between March 1894 and June 1894 a chorister on tour with D'Oyly Carte's American "Utopia Limited" Company, appearing in New York and Boston.

Edith Pyne is listed as having returned to England with the rest of the cast arriving in Liverpool on 4 June 1894. She gives her age as 21, which was clearly incorrect, but I assume this is our 'Edith'

However I have also found this entry in a Boston marriage register in 1894. 

On 17 July 1894 Edith E Pyne of Boston, aged 18 married Arthur Fay Constable, aged 24 of New York. Arthur, the son of Jasper Constable and Adelia A Cusick, gives his occupation as a reporter. He was the local editor of the Daily Herald, Dayton in 1888 & 1889. Edith says she has no occupation but states that she is from London, England, the daughter of George and Anney.

On 6 July 1896, Winifred Elsie Constable the daughter of Arthur Fay Constable and Edith Constable formerly Pyne was born at 91 St James Road, Bermondsey. Edith Constable is the informant and gives her address as 91 St James Road, Bermondsey. Arthur's occupation is given as a shipping clerk. 

It is not entirely clear what happened next, for the 1900 US census shows 29 year old Arthur Constable, single and living with his mother Adelia in Cook, Illinois and in 1901 the census shows Edith, single aged 25 living with her widowed mother, Annie. They were boarding with Mark Allen, a 63 year old self employed ship porter (docks) and his 56 year old wife Sarah at 269 Halley Road, East Ham, Essex. Edith Pine, aged 25, born Bermondsey, gives her occupation as an actress. With her is her daughter, Constance Pine, aged 4, born Bermondsey, who I take to be Winifred Elsie.

Edith Eleanor Pyne married 35 year old Arthur Henry Pennett, a theatrical property master on 3 November 1905 at West Ham Registry Office. Both were resident at 112 Monega Road, Forest Gate at the time of their marriage. Arthur was described as the son of Alfred James Pennett, deceased, a former bookbinder. Edith Eleanor Pyne is described as a 26 year old spinster, the daughter of George Thomas Pyne deceased, a former vocalist. The witnesses were Samuel Pennett and Ada Fraser, Edith's sister.

In 1911, 39 year old Arthur Pennett, a property master (stage hand) and 31 year old Edith Pennett, actress, were boarding at 25 Oozells Street North, Birmingham, with George and Jane Partridge, brass workers and their children. Also boarding with them was 50 year old Verona Fuller, actress and 19 year old William Finch, dresser. It is not clear where her daughter Winifred Elsie Constable was at the time. 

In 1921 Arthur and Edith were living at 143, Carlyle Road, Manor Park, London. Arthur, aged 50, was a theatrical property master for Robert Evett, Daly's Theatre, London,  but travelling with a touring company. His wife was 40 years old and is described "at home". Edith's daughter Winifred Elsie Wright, now married, aged 22, was a professional singer at Her Majesty's Theatre, albeit currently unemployed.  Her eldest son John Arthur Wright was 6 months old. 

Edith Eleanor Pennett of 143, Carlyle Road died on 4 April 1926 at St Luke's Hospital, Hereford Road, Paddington. The cause of death was cervical cancer and Edith was aged just 46 years old. The informant was Winifred Wright, her daughter. (Reg Gen June Qtr 1926 Paddington 1a 95). 

In 1939 Arthur H Pennett, a theatrical property master was still living at Carlyle Road, East Ham. Also at the same address was Marie Strathmore, a theatrical wardrobe mistress. Arthur Henry Pennett died in 1943 (Reg Gen March 1943 Hammersmith 1a 268

Edith's first husband Arthur Fay Constable remarried in Chicago on 15 April 1902 and went on to have two more daughters. He died on 11 January 1954 in Los Angeles and was buried at "Hollywood Forever", Hollywood, Los Angeles.  

Winifred and Arthur's daughter Winifred married Joseph William Melling Wright in 1919 (Reg Gen Sept 1919 Paddington 1a 233). In 1921 Winifred Elsie Wright was living with her mother and stepfather at 143, Carlyle Road, Manor Park, London. Aged 22, she was a professional singer at Her Majesty's Theatre, albeit currently unemployed. Her eldest son John Arthur Wright was 6 months old. Joseph and Winifred had two sons, who are pictured below with their mother

  • John Arthur Wright "Jack". Born 1921 (Reg Gen June 1921 West Ham 4a 583)
  • Robert B Wright. Born 1922 (Reg Gen Dec 1922 West Ham 4a 494)

Joseph William Melling Wright appears to have been in the shipping business and travelled between Africa and the United Kingdom. The following trips have been located

  • 26 December 1921, 23 year old Joseph of 15 Kinnard Close, Wallesley, Cheshire arrived in Liverpool from Lagos, Africa
  • 13 March 1927, Joseph arrives in Liverpool from Africa on "M S Aba" His occupation is "shipping agent"
  • 1 November 1929 Joseph arrives in Liverpool from the Gold Coast. His address is 42 Bournemouth Road, Blackpool

Joseph and Winifred divorced in 1936 (National archives J77/3655/8537) Joseph was the appellant and George Horace Garside was named as the co-respondent. 

Winifred married George Horace Garside in 1937 (Reg Gen March 1937 Blackpool 8e 1125).

In 1939 George H Garside, a dispenser and his wife Winifred were living at 99B Park Road, Blackpool. Her aunt Grace Florence Ponting was living with them.

George Garside and his wife "Win", her Aunt Grace Florence Ponting and cousin Gracie Joan Ponting are pictured below at "Joan"'s house in Ninfield, East Sussex. 

George Horace Garside of 363 Blackpool Old Road, Carleton near Blackpool died on 4 November 1957 at London Hospital, Stephney. Administration was granted to Winifred Elsie Garside, his widow. 

Winifred Elsie Garside died in 1976 (Reg Gen March 1976 Blackpool and Flyde 40 481).

Click here to go to Appendix O - Scott's of London

Click here to go back to "Chapter 13 - Dudley James Ponting"

Click here to go to "Chapter 14 - The children of Dudley and Grace Ponting"