Pynes of London
Grace Florence Pyne, the wife of Dudley James Ponting (Chapter 13) was the daughter of George Thomas Pyne and Annie Jane Pyne formerly Stroud nee Scott
George Thomas Pyne, my great great grandfather, was born on 4 June 1841 at Walworth Gardens, East Street, Newington the son of Eleanora Pyne, needlewoman. No details are given of George's father. (Reg Gen June Qtr 1841 Newington 4 3442).
The 1841 census (taken 7 June) shows the as yet unnamed George and his family living at Walworth Gardens, St Mary's Newington, Surrey (SE17)
- Eleanor Pine, aged 30, laundress
- Eleanor Pine, aged 12
- Susannah Pine, aged 8
- Sarah (Ann) Pine, aged 6
- U/K Pine (male), aged 2 days
Only her youngest child is shown as having been born in the same county.
They were living either in the same house, or next door to Benjamin Simmons, a 30 year hawker, his wife Caroline and their family. In the 1841 census adults over the age of 15 were rounded to the nearest 5 years.
Thomas Pyne and Eleanor Simmons
It seems likely that George's mother Eleanor was Eleanor Simmons who had married Thomas Pyne on 8 February 1829 at St John the Baptist Church in Clerkenwell (EC1). The witnesses had been Phillipp Pymm and Benjamin Simmons (originally recorded as Susanna Simmons). Both parties signed the marriage register.
Eleanor Simmons, born on 3 December 1808 was baptised on 25 December 1808 at St Botolph Without Aldersgate, London, the daughter of Benjamin Simmons and Susanna Pymm who married on 27 September 1801 at St Nicholas Church, Brighton. Benjamin and Susanna's first child was Benjamin Phillips Simmons who had been baptised on 1 April 1804 at St Botolph without Aldersgate. He had married Caroline Benison on 7 December 1823 and it appears likely that they were living next to his sister Eleanor in 1841.
Thomas and Eleanor's first daughter Eleanor Pyne had been born on 11 February 1830 and was baptised on 14 March 1830 at All Souls Church, Langham Place, Westminster. Thomas and Eleanor were living at 70 Marylebone Lane, W1 and Thomas was 'in trade'.
I can find no trace of Susannah Pyne's baptism. She would have been born around 1832.
Sarah Ann Pyne was baptised on 23 November 1834 at Marylebone. Thomas and Eleanor were living at 390 High Street, Marylebone and Thomas was in "trade".
It is possible that Thomas Pyne had died between Sarah Ann's birth and that of George Thomas Pyne and that George Thomas Pyne took his mother's married name even though Thomas was not his father. Whilst the subsequent marriages of the sisters do not support this, I have seen a number of other instances where a deceased father is not always described as such. The only burials traced pre 1841 that may be of interest are those of:
- George Thomas Pyne of York Place who died aged 49 and was buried on 23 April 1837 at Islington
- Thomas Pyne of Weymouth Street, who died aged 37 and was buried on 4 June 1837 at St Marylebone.
Both of these pre-date civil registration and I have not been able to trace a will for either. Weymouth Street is in the Marylebone area of London and so it seems that Thomas' burial in June 1837 is most likely to have been Eleanor's husband.
Whilst this is speculation we do know that by the time the 1851 census was taken, it appears Eleanor had re-married and the family are living at 3 Elizabeth Place (below ground), Camberwell, Surrey. The entry includes the following:
- George William Prouse, head, aged 40, coachman, born Peckham Hill.
- Eleanor Prouse, wife aged 42, born Aldersgate, London.
- Eleanor Pyne, daughter in law , aged 21, servant without situation, born Marylebone.
- Susanna Pyne, daughter in law, aged 19, servant without situation, born Marylebone.
- Sarah Ann Pyne, daughter in law, aged 16, servant without situation, born Marylebone.
- George Thomas Pyne, son in law, aged 9, servant without situation, born Walworth, blind
Daughter in law and son in law clearly do not mean what they do now and the children should correctly be referred to as George's step children (if indeed their mother had married George Prouse). No trace has been found of the marriage to date and Eleanor had reverted to Pyne by the time the 1871 census was taken.
G W Prowse of Camberwell died on Saturday 9 July 1853. George William Prowse of "Melon Ground", Camberwell was buried on 17 July 1853 at St Giles, Camberwell. He would have been just 42 years old.
I can find no trace of Eleanor in 1861.
In 1871 'Helena' Pyne, a 62 year old widow is living with her son George Thomas Pyne and his family at 100 Aldersgate, St Botolph without London.
The record of admissions and discharges to Homerton Workhouse shows Eleanor Pyne was admitted on 26 May 1874 . Her last residence before admission had been 1 Golden Lion Close. She was a 66 year old widow who gave her occupation as 'charwoman'. under 'able bodied' it is noted 'no'. She died in the workhouse on 19 June 1874. Her death certificate confirms that she was resident in Bromley workhouse. She is described as "widow of Thomas Pyne, dealer in chinaware" (Reg Gen June Qtr 1874 Poplar (to 1965) 1c 395). Was this George's mother?
I have set out below what I believe is known about Eleanor's daughters and their descendants. Scroll down if you are only interested in George Thomas Pyne and his descendants.
Eleanor Smithers nee Pyne
Eleanor Pyne was baptised on 14 March 1830 at All Souls Church, Langham Place, Westminster. Thomas and Eleanor Pyne were living at 70 Marylebone Lane, W1 and Thomas was 'in trade'.
On 21 September 1851 Eleanor Pyne, daughter of Thomas Pyne, butcher married Henry James Smithers, a brass worker of Commercial Road. One of the witnesses was Susan Pyne. Later census returns confirm Eleanor was born in 1830.
I did have concerns about whether this Eleanor Pyne was the daughter of Eleanor Pyne and therefore George Thomas Pyne's elder sister and secondly the daughter of Eleanor and Thomas Pyne as this means Thomas would have died before his daughter married which contradicts the marriage certificate. However Eleanor's son William Tilbury Smithers was visiting the widow of his uncle George Thomas Pyne in 1881 and this seems to support the view that they were members of the same family. Henry and Eleanor's children would have been Grace Florence Pyne's cousins
Henry and Eleanor went on to have, at least six children:
- Eleanor Mary Smithers. Baptised 8 August 1852 at St Mary Magdalene, Woolwich
- Mary Ann Smithers. Born 1854 in Plumstead, Kent
- Emily Anne Smithers. Born 1856 in Plumstead, Kent
- William Tilbury Smithers. Born 1858 in Woolwich, Kent
- John Smithers. Born 9 February 1865. Baptised 26 July 1865 in St James, Middlesex
- Phillip J Smithers. Born 1868 in St Pauls, Middlesex.
In 1861 the family were living at 4 Wellington Place, Plumstead where 28 year old Henry was a brass worker and gas fitter. The census confirms that Eleanor was born in Marylebone.
In 1871 the family were living at 17 Bedford Court, St Pauls, Covent Garden. Henry was still working as a gas fitter engineer. None of the girls were listed. 13 year old William was a doctors apprentice.
In 1881 the family were at 8 Henrietta Street, Bloomsbury.48 year old Henry is still a gas fitter engineer. Only John and Phillip remained at home.
Eleanor Smithers died in 1883 aged 53 years (Reg Gen Sept 1883 St George Hanover 1a 289).
It is possible that in 1891 Henry was lodging at Blackfriars Hotel, St Saviours, Southwark. Aged 59 he is still working as a Brass Finisher.
Henry James Smithers died in 1898 (Reg Gen Dec 1898 Strand 1b 386).
Nothing further is known about Henry and Eleanor's son John Smithers after 1881, when aged 16 he was living with his parents. The census notes that he is "deaf". Details of what is known about their other children is below:
- Eleanor Mary Burrows nee Smithers
Eleanor Mary Smithers, daughter of Henry James Smithers married Frederick Burrows, son of Thomas Burrows on 5 December 1880 at St Martins in the Field, Westminster.
In 1881 the couple were living at 26 Waxwell Terrace, Lambeth and 28 year old Frederick was working as a lithographer. By 1891 the family were living at 13 Edith Villas, Edmonton and 38 year old Frederick Burrows was a lithographic printer. In 1901 they were living at 21 Cuta Cottages, Edmonton.
The 1911 census records that the couple had 8 children, of which 6 survived, including:
- Frederick William Burrows. Born 16 December 1882 Baptised 11 January 1883, daughter of Frederick and Eleanor Burrows of 21, Peabody Buildings, Drury Lane. Frederick was a lithograph printer.
- Emma Maud Mary Burrows. Born 1885 in Strand. Baptised 31 July 1887, daughter of Frederick and Eleanor Mary Burrows of 9 Fairfield Road, Edmonton. Frederick was a lithograph printer.
- Daisy Louise Burrows.. Baptised 31 July 1887 in Edmonton, the same day as her elder sister.
- Thomas Phillip Burrows. Born 1888 in Edmonton. Baptised 3 November 1891 at St James, Upper Edmonton, son of Frederick and Eleanor Mary Burrows of 23 Edith Villas, Rayham Road. Frederick was a lithograph printer.
- Charles Lionel Bernard Burrows. Born 3 July 1891. Baptised 3 November 1891 at St James, Upper Edmonton, the same day as brother Thomas.
- Eleanor May Burrows. Born 15 February 1897 in Edmonton. Baptised 30 March 1897 at St James, Upper Edmonton, daughter of Frederick and Eleanor Mary Burrows of 9 Brettenham Avenue.
At the time the census was taken, the family were living at 78 Raynham Road, Upper Edmonton where 58 year old Frederick was an engine oiler in a floor cloth works. Their 28 year old son Frederick was a painter for a building firm as was their 24 year old daughter Daisy. Sons Thomas, aged 22 and daughter Eleanor, aged 14 were both employed on wirework at an aviators works.
Frederick and Eleanor's son Frederick William Burrows enlisted in the Army Service Corps on 5 May 1913. He was a 32 year old painter living at 78 Raynham Road, Edmonton. Nothing more is known about Frederick.
Frederick and Eleanor's daughter Emma Maud Mary Burrows married her cousin, Henry Tilbury Smithers on 3 December 1926 at St James, Upper Edmonton. Upper Edmonton. Henry Tilbury Smithers was the son of William Tilbury Smithers and Louise White. William Tilbury Smithers was Eleanor Burrow's younger brother (see below).
￼In 1911 Henry and Emma were living at 78 Raynham Road, Edmonton. Although this is the same address as Emma's parents, they are listed separately so this appears to have been a split address. Henry, aged 27 year old was a gas fitter. The census shows they had two children and a further son was born after the census was taken
- Ivy Lilian May Smithers. Born 21 February 1907 in Edmonton. Ivy married Edgar David Cowan. In 1939 they were living at 53 Raynham Road and Edgar was a trolley bus driver. Fusilier Edgar David Cowan died on 2 December 1943 in Italy and was buried at Sangro River War Cemetery. Ivy Lilian May Cowan died on 23 January 1999 at St Ives Lodge, Chingford and was buried at Chingford Mount Cemetary.
- Daisy Francis Louisa Smithers. Born 13 February 1909. Baptised 10 April 1910 in Edmonton, daughter of Henry and "Maud" Smithers of 80 Raynham Road. Henry was a gas fitter. Daisy died 1913 in Edmonton.
- Heclar H E Smithers. Born 1912 in Edmonton. He died 1913 in Edmonton
- William Frederick Tilbury Smithers. Born 3 April 1914. In 1939 he was living with his sister Ivy (see above). He married Joan Alice May Bolden in 1941. Joan died on 28 October 1974. William died on 21 February 1990 in Harlow.
Emma M M Smithers died in 1936 aged 51 years (Reg Gen Dec 1936 Edmonton 3a 848). The 1939 register shows Henry was living at 23 Aberdeen Road, Edmonton with Peter and Elizabeth Rodwell, but the 1939 electoral register shows him at 53 Raynham Road with daughter Ivy, as yet unmarried and son William. He is still described as a gas fitter. Henry died in 1965 in Westminster (Reg Gen September 1965 Westminster 5e 697)
Frederick and Eleanor's daughter Daisy Louise Burrows married Herbert Anthony John Parke on 20 June 1915 at St John The Evangelist, Upper Edmonton. Herbert was a 26 year old soldier, the son of Herbert Anthony Parke, jeweller. Daisy was 28 years old. Both give their address as 78 Raynham Road, Edmonton. Daisy L Parke died in 1921 (Reg Gen June 1921 Edmonton 3a 532). Herbert remarried and in 1939 was living with wife Dora in Chislehurst. Herbert Anthony John Parke of Virginia Cottage, Derringstone Hill, Barham, Kent died on 30 August 1958. Probate was granted to Dora Parke, widow. His estate was valued at £669. 3s 2d.
In 1911 Frederick and Eleanor's son Charles Lionel Bernard Burrows was a driver with the military stationed in South Africa. World war 1 records show he was a gunner with the Royal artillery. He married Annie Edith Johnson on 24 November 1921 at St James Norland, Kensington. Charles, aged 30 was a police officer living at 51 Sirdar Road, W11. His father Frederick William Burrows was a retired lithographic printer. Annie, aged 21 gives the same address. She was the daughter of William Johnson, newsagent. In 1933 Charles is listed at 74, Whittington Road, Wood Green, with his wife "Annie Maud Burrows". Other researchers have attributed the marriage of Charles L B Burrows to Annie M Philpott in 1930 in Edmonton to 'our' Charles. In 1939 Annie Edith Burrows was living at 51 Sirdar Road. Also listed is Thomas Douglas Leonard Green. in the 1939 register Charles L B Burrows is shown as married but is listed alone at 234 Gladstone Avenue, Wood Green. He was a police constable. Charles Lionel B Burrows died in 1972.
Nothing more is known about Frederick and Eleanor's son Thomas Phillip Burrows or their daughter Eleanor May Burrows. Thomas Phillip Burrows may have emigrated to Western Australia where he died in Perth in 1963?
- Mary Ann Scott nee Smithers
On 23 October 1881 Henry and Eleanor's daughter Mary Ann Smithers married William James Scott at St Mary's Church, Somers Town. William, "a gas and hot water engineer", at 24 years old was three years younger than Mary. He was the son of William Scott, a deceased traveller.
In 1891 they were living at 44, Bayham Street, St Pancreas where 33 year old William was a fitter.
The couple had six children
- William Tilbury Scott. Born 27 October 1882 at 29 Bayham Place, Camden Town, London
- Albert Henry Scott. Born 27 January 1884 at 29 Bayham Place, Camden Town, London
- Charles Scott. Born 18 January 1888 at 29 Bayham Place, Camden Town, London
- Frederick William Scott. Born 1890
- Alice Maud Scott. Born 27 January 1893 in St Pancreas. Baptised 15 March 1893 at St Mary the Virgin, Somers Town.
William James Scott died in August 1893 aged 35 at 44 Bayham Street, St Pancras and was buried on 2 September 1893 at St Pancreas Parish Chapel.
In 1901 his widow Mary Ann Scott was living at 56 King Street, St Pancras. She was employed as a cleaner, her son William was a carriage cleaner and her son Albert a blacksmith. In 1911 Mary Ann was living at 21 Werrington Street, aged 57 she was employed as an office cleaner. Albert and Alice Maud were still living with her.
Mary Ann Scott died in 1942 (Reg Gen March 1942 Wandsworth 1d 541).
William James and Mary Ann Scott's son William Tilbury Scott married Rachel Laura Flemming in 1906. In 1911 the family were living at 21 Werrington Street, where William was a gardener for the Borough Council. William and Rachel had four children:
- Winifred Mary Scott. Born 20 December 1907 in St Pancras. Winifred Mary Scott died on 25 December 1975 (Reg Gen Dec 1975 Barnet 11 0325).
- Eric William Scott. Born 1909 in St Pancras. Eric originally sailed for Australia on 31 March 1927 on the 'Beltana'. He died on 10 July 1992 in Armidale, New South Wales, Australia
- Donald Henry Scott. Born 23 April 1915 in St Pancras. Donald married Mary Ridley on 8 November 1941 in Pancras, Middx. Donald died on 5 March 1985 in the Isle Of Wight. Mary Scott died on 27 September 2011 in Bedford.
- David John Scott. Born 2 March 1924 in Pancras. David died in 2009 in Finchley, London
I have been told that in 1914 William and Rachel were living at 5 Elm Road, St Pancras and William was a pupil of Eugene Sandow, the famous strongman. William was a proficient gymnast and started his own gym classes at the Methodist Church he attended in Camden Town. William returned from WW1 and disillusioned by the experience, became a lay preacher. In 1939 William and Rachel were living at 63 Walmington Fold, Hendon where William was a municipal storekeeper. Sons Donald H Scott, a post office engineer and David J Scott were still at home. William Tilbury Scott of 63 Walmington Fold, Finchley died on 13 May 1947 at Redhill County Hospital, Finchley (Reg Gen June 1947 Hendon 5f 201). Probate was granted to his widow, Rachel Laura Scott. Rachel Laura Scott of 63 Walmington Fold died on 20 December 1960 in Hendon, Middlesex. Probate was granted to Winifred Mary Scott, spinster.
William James and Mary Ann Scott's son Albert Henry Scott enlisted in The Royal on 16 August 1902 He was 18 years and 6 months old and a printers labourer, but in 1911 in living with his mother at St Pancras and is a 'viceman' for a motor body builders. Albert H Scott died aged 54 on 12 August 1937 at Reginald Road, Birmingham.
Nothing more is known about William James and Mary Ann Scott's sons Charles Scott or Frederick William Scott.
William James and Mary Ann Scott's daughter Alice Maud Scott married Herbert Packman on 21 August 1921 in Addlestone, Surrey. Alice Maud Packman of 20 Patshull Road, London, NW5 died on 4 February 1965. Probate was granted to Herbert Packman, retired commissionaire. Her estate was valued at £637. Herbert Packman died in 1967 in St Pancras (Reg Gen March 1967 St Marylebone 5d 876).
- Emily Anne Dickens nee Smithers
Henry and Eleanor's daughter Emily Anne Smithers married Samuel Dickens in 1878 in the Strand.
In 1881 Samuel and Emily were living at 11, Mason Street, Sale, Cheshire, where 26 year old Samuel was a carpenter. In 1891 they were living at 4 Mason Street, Sale, Cheshire.
Samuel and Emily had seven children:
- Henry William Dickens. Born 1879 in Sale. William Henry Dickens was baptised on 1 May 1879 at St Martins, Ashton on Mersey, Cheshire.
- Annie Eleanor Dickens. Born 1880 in Sale, Cheshire. Eleanor Dickens was baptised 1 May 1884 at St Martin, Ashton upon Mersey.
- Frederick Charles Dickens. Born 1884 in Sale, Cheshire. Frederick was baptised on 21 May 1885 at St Martin, Ashton upon Mersey.
- Frank Dickens. Born 1887 in Sale, Cheshire
- Jane Dickens. Born 1889 in Sale, Cheshire.
- Harry Dickens. Born 1893 in Sale.
- Mary Edith Emma Dickens. Born 1898 in Sale, Cheshire.
In 1901 they were living at 1 Eliza Street, Sale. By 1911 the family were living at 6 St John's Street, Sale. Only Harry and Mary Edith were still living at home. Samuel Dickens died in 1912 (Reg Gen Sept 1912 Bucklow 8a 204). Emily Anne Dickens died in 1936 aged 80 years old (Reg Gen Dec 1936 Bucklow 8a 247)
Samuel and Emily's son William Henry Dickens married Elizabeth Jane Nash in 1904 at St Annes, Sale. In 1911 they were living with Elizabeth's grandmother Rebecca Nash at Bageley Road, Sale. William was a 31 year old stationary engine driver. Elizabeth, aged 25 was a housekeeper. They had two children Eleanor Rebecca Dickens, aged 6 and William Henry Dickens, aged 1. William H Dickens died in 1927 in Bucklow, Cheshire (Reg Gen June 1927 Bucklow 8a 227).
In 1911 Samuel and Annie's daughter (Annie) Eleanor, aged 30 was a servant living with William Shaw, a building contractor and his wife at Little Dean, Cecil Avenue, Ashton upon Mersey.
Samuel and Annie's son Frederick Charles Dickens married Janet Knowles in 18 September 1909 at the Wesleyan Chapel, Sale. In 1911 they were living at Orchard Place, Off School Road, Sale. Alfred Knowles, aged 21, presumably Janet's brother was boarding with them. In 1915 he enlisted in the Royal Engineers. Frederick Charles Dickens of 242 Glebelands Road, Ashton on Mersey, Sale died on 18 December 1939. Probate was granted to his widow Janet. His estate was valued at £1,932.1s.5d.
In 1911 Samuel and Annie's son Frank Dickens was boarding with Duncan Lamont and his wife at 59 Perseverance Street, Sale. Frank was a fitter in electrical engineering. Frank Dickens married Elizabeth Ann Hickson in 1911 (Reg Gen June 1911 Bucklow 8a 407). Frank Dickens of 12 Claremont Road, Sale, Cheshire died on 8 February 1954 at 59a Shaw Heath, Stockport. Probate was granted to his widow, Elizabeth Ann Dickens. His estate was valued at £2,518.19s,10d.
In 1911 Samuel and Annie's daughter Jane Dickens, aged 21 was a domestic servant, living and working for Edward James Thompson, a 52 year old architect, surveyor and valuer at Glenric, Marsley Road, Brooklands. Jane Dickens died in 1957 in Chesterfield (Reg Gen Sept 1957 Chesterfield 3a 105).
Samuel and Annie's son Harry Dickens married Hylda York on 21 September 1927 at St Anne's Church, Sale. Harry Dickens of 74 Carrington Lane, Ashton on Mersey, Sale died on 15 April 1962. Probate was granted to his widow. His estate was valued at £9,914.5s. Hylda Dickens died in 1986 in Sale, Cheshire.
Nothing more is known about Samuel and Annie's daughter Mary Edith Emma Dickens.
- William Tilbury Smithers and Louisa White
Henry and Eleanor's son William Tilbury Smithers married Louisa White on 30 January 1876 at St Giles in the Field, London (Reg Gen March 1875 St Giles 1b 634).
However in 1881 he was visiting his uncle George Thomas Pyne's, widow, Annie Jane Swanson (see below). It is not clear where his wife Louisa or their daughter Eleanor was at the time.
William and Louisa had seven children:
- Eleanor Emily Smithers. Born 1876 in St Giles, London .
- Henry Tilbury Smithers. Born 23 May 1883 in Eastbourne, Sussex.
- Albert Edward Smithers. Born 14 August 1884 in Eastbourne, Sussex.
- Alfred James Smithers. Born 14 December 1885 in St Pancras.
- Edwin P Smithers. Born 1888 in Holborn
- Ann Daisy Smithers. Born 1897 in Newington
- Lily May Smithers. Born 1900 in Fulham. Died 1900 in Fulham
In 1891 the family were living at 53 King Street, Walthamstow. William was a gas fitter. Louisa's mother Sarah, a 69 year old widow was living with them.
In 1901 they were living at 29 Querrin Street, Fulham and in 1911 they were living at 18 Wheatsheaf Terrace.
William Tilbury Smithers died aged 79 and was buried at St Mary's, Stoke D' Abernon on 24 March 1937.
William and Louisa's daughter Eleanor Emily Smithers married John James Sanders on 8 August 1894 at St Mary's, Walthamstow. In 1911 they were living at 69 Oakley Road, Walthamstow where 39 year old John was a general labourer for a bricklayer. John and Eleanor had six children:
- Cyril John James Sanders. Born 2 February 1901. Baptised 24 February 1901 at St James, walthamstow. Cyril married Edith Eva Evelyn Koellner on 11 August 1929 in Stanmore, Sydney, NSW. It is not clear when he emigrated. In 1933 they were living at Leichardt, Dalley, New South Wales. They are believed to have had four children. Cyril John James Sanders died on 5 June 1964 in Brisbane.
- Charles Henry Sanders. Born 22 June 1903. Baptised 6 September 1903 at St James, Walthamstow
- William Edward Sanders. Born 12 August 1905. Baptised 30 August 1905 at St James, Walthamstow. William married Ivy Matilda Williams on 19 December 1931 at St Mary the Virgin, Walthamstow. .
- Ethel May Sanders. Born 23 November 1907. Baptised 18 December 1907 at St James, Walthamstow. Ethel died aged 14 and was buried on 1 August 1922 at Queens Road Cemetary, Waltham Forest.
- Alfred Herbert Sanders. Born 25 March 1910. Baptised 10 April 1910 at St James, Walthamstow.
- Gladys Hilda Sanders. Born 14 March 1912. Baptised 29 March 1912 at St James, Walthamstow. Gladys married William George Bailey in 1935. In 1939 they were living at 307 Church Road, Leyton. William died in 1986. Gladys died in 1989 in Waltham Forest.
William and Louisa's son Henry Tilbury Smithers married his cousin Emma Maud Mary Burrows on 26 December 1903 in Upper Edmonton. Their lives are detailed above.
William and Louisa's son Albert Edward Smithers was admitted to Manchester Street School, Camden on 16 July 1889. He married Edith Annie Norrington on 5 December 1904 at St Peters, Fulham. Albert was a 20 year old "hot water fitter", son of William Tilbury Smithers, also a "hot water fitter". Edith was a 20 year old spinster, daughter of Alfred Norrington, baker. They had one son Edwin Alfred Smithers, born on 12 June 1905. In 1911 they were living at 29 James Street, Mile End where Albert was a "gas fitter". Private Albert Edward Smithers of the 4th Battalion London Regiment was killed in action on 16 June 1915. He was buried at the Menin Gate, Ypres, France and Flanders. Their son Edwin married Dorine Mary Spensley in 1925. Dorine died on 14 August 1932, aged just 28 years old and Edwin died in 1938 aged 32. Edith never remarried and Edith Annie Smithers of St Vincents Home, 49 Queen Caroline Street, London, W6 died on 14 February 1974.
William and Louisa's son Alfred James Smithers had earlier been admitted to Manchester Street School, Camden on 24 June 1889. Alfred married Kate Alethea Manning in 1911. In 1919 they were living at 21, Ashcombe Street, Sands End West, Finsbury and Fulham. In 1939 they were living at 8 Daphne Street, Wandsworth and both father and sons were gas fitters. Alfred and Kate's appear to have had two sons were:
- Alfred L Smithers. Born 16 December 1912.
- Leslie Ernest Smithers. Born 14 September 1917. Baptised 4 November 1917 at St Matthew, Fulham. Leslie married Winifred Margaret Stone in 1941. Leslie died on 11 January 1998.
Alfred James Smithers of 8 Daphne Street, Wansdworth died on 8 August 1952 at St James Hospital, Balham. Administration of his estate was granted to Kate Alethea Smithers his widow. His estate was valued at £714. 18s. 10d. Kate A Smithers died in 1965.
Nothing more is known about William and Louisa's son Edwin P Smithers after 1901. it may be that he died that year. a record of the death of Edwin Philip Smithers has been located.
Finally William and Louisa's daughter Ann Daisy Smithers married John George Dixey in 1919. In 1939 they were living at The Plough Inn, Station Road, Cobham. John George Dixey of The Plough Shop, Station Road, D'Abernon died on 8 February 1957 in St Thomas Hospital, Hambledon. Probate was granted to his widow Ann Daisy Dixey, widow and Rowland Weller, motor engineer. Ann Daisy Dixey of The Plough Shop, Station Road, D'Abernon, Surrey died on 19 December 1957. Probate was granted to Richard Dixie, lorry driver and Lilian Ritchie, married woman.
- Phillip James Smithers and Jeanette Grace Baillie
Henry And Eleanor's son Phillip James Smithers married Jeanette Grace Baillie on 9 November 1889 in All Saints, South Lambeth.
In 1891 the family was living at 48 Chesson Road, Fulham. 25 year Phillip was a gas fitter. In 1901 they were living at 7 Crab Tree Lane, Fulham. In 1911 they were at 32 Leander Road, Thornton Heath. Phillip has been a gas engineer throughout
Phillip and Jeanette had one son Phillip Henry Smithers who was born 1890 and by 1911 was a clerk working for the gas company.
Phillip James Smithers of Hillcrest, Valebridge, Burgess Hill died on 29 December 1933 at Royal Sussex County Hospital, Brighton. Probate was granted to his son Phillip Henry Smithers, engineer. His effects were worth £1,220.
Jeanette Grace Smithers died in 1948 in Cuckfield, Sussex.
In 13 May 1949, their son Phillip Henry Smithers arrived in Montreal , Quebec on the Ringstad. He gives his occupation as a government officer. His last address was Beardsden, Nr Glasgow, Scotland. Nothing more is known about Phillip.
Susannah Turner nee Pyne
I can find no trace of daughter Susannah's baptism
In 1841 Susannah was 8 years old and was living with her mother at Walworth Gardens, St Mary's Newington, Surrey
In 1851 Susanna was living with her mother and George William Prouse at 3 Elizabeth Place.
On 29 May 1858, 26 year old Susannah Maria Pyne, daughter of Thomas Pyne, butcher, married 25 year old Thomas Turner, police constable at St John's Clerkenwell. Both give their address as 81 St John Street.
I would have been tempted to dismiss this as not being the marriage of the daughter of Eleanor Pyne and the sister of George Thomas Pyne, but for what I have surmised about her sister Eleanor (above).
In 1871 the family were living at 27 Victoria Crescent, Newport, Wales where 38 year old Thomas was a police constable. The census confirms that Susannah was born in 1833. The couple had five children
- Susannah Turner. Born 1861 in London
- Sarah L Turner. Born 1863 in London
- Eleanor A Turner. Born 1865 in Newport
- John Arthur Turner. Born 1867 in Newport.
- William James Turner. Born 1869 in Newport
I cannot find any trace of the family after that date.
Sarah Ann Pasmore nee Pyne
Sarah Ann Pyne was baptised on 23 November 1834 at Marylebone. Thomas and Eleanor were living at 390 High Street, Marylebone and Thomas was in "trade".
In 1841 Sarah was living with her mother at Walworth Gardens, St Mary's Newington, Surrey and in 1851 she was living with her mother and George William Prouse at 3 Elizabeth Place, St Giles, Camberwell.
On 8 March 1858, Sarah Ann Pyne of Kings Head Court, daughter of George Thomas Pyne, butcher married William Pasmore, a fire escape conductor. The witnesses were Andrew James Pasmore and Susannah Pyne. Later censuses indicate that Sarah was born between 1832 and 1834 and it could be that she was Eleanor's daughter and George Thomas Pyne's sister.
￼In 1861 the family were living at 4 Cradle Court where 27 year old William was a fire escape conductor. The couple had six children:
- Sarah Ann Pasmore. Born 27 December 1858. Baptised 23 January 1859 in Finsbury.
- William Pasmore. Born 26 October 1860 at 46 Brick Lane, City Road, St Lukes. Baptised 25 November 1860 in St Lukes, Finsbury.
- Maria Jane Pasmore. Born 25 July 1864 in London City, London, Middx. Baptised 30 December 1866 at St Marks, Kennington.
- Mary Ann Pasmore. Born 29 June 1867 in Lambeth, Surrey
- Clara Ellen Pasmore. Baptised 3 July 1870 at St Marks, Kennington.
- Andrew James Pasmore. Born 14 November 1874 in Lambeth, Surrey
In 1871 the family were living at 23 Mews Street, Lambeth and William, 38 is a fellowship porter. All the children except Andrew were living at home.
In 1881 the family are at Newburn Street, Lambeth where 48 year old William is a fish porter.
William Pasmore died in 1891 (Reg Gen June 1891 Lambeth 1d 275).
Sarah A Pasmore died in 1915 (Reg Gen March 1915 Mile End Old Town 1c 520)
- Sarah Ann Winter nee Pasmore
William and Sarah's daughter Sarah Ann Pasmore married Robert Winter on 20 May 1879 at St Mary's, Lambeth. Robert was a 25 year old fish dealer , the son of Jesse Winter, gardener. Sarah was the daughter of William Pasmore, porter. Both give their address as New Street.
In 1881 Robert and Sarah were living at 12 Gloucester Road, St George Martyr where 27 year old Robert was a "carman". Robert and Sarah had three children
- Sarah Ann A Winter. Born 12 April 1880 in Bloomsbury. On 20 February 1888 Sarah was admitted to Church Street Temporary School, Hackney
- Robert Winter. Born 16 September 1883 in Marylebone. On 19 January 1891 he was admitted to Church Street Temporary School, Hackney
- Jesse Winter. Born 1887.
In 1891 the family were living at 20 Wimborne Road, Shoreditch. They were still at the same address in 1901 and also listed is James Carpenter, aged 14, described as an 'adopted son'.
Sarah Ann Winter died in 1904.
Robert Winter died in 1927.
- William Pasmore and Elizabeth Martha Georgina Bales
William and Sarah's son, William Pasmore married Elizabeth Martha Georgina Bales in Whitechapel on 20 August 1905. William was a 45 year old widower employed a a car man. Elizabeth was a 31 year old spinster. Both give their address as 2 Bennets Place. William's father William is shown as deceased porter. Elizabeth's father was James Lake Bales, printer. The witnesses were James Lake Bales and Emma Louisa Bales.
In 1911 the family were living at 28 Fort Street, Spitalfields. William was a cart minder for a fruit seller.
Elizabeth Passmore died in 1922 in Bethnal Green, London.
In 1939 William was living at Loggides Road, Hackney. He was described as a retired car attendant.
William Passmore died in 1940 in Hackney.
- Maria Jane Reddin nee Pasmore
William and Sarah's daughter, Maria Jane Pasmore married John Reddin on 25 December 1884 at St John's, Hoxton. John was a 22 year old farrier, the son of Daniel Reddin, horse keeper.
In 1901 the family were living at 291 Weston Street where 38 year old John was a farrier. In 1911 they were living at 7 Burgundy Street, Old Kent Road where John was now a builders labourer. They had five children:
- Maria Caroline Reddin. Born 17 October 1885 in Hoxton. Baptised 4 November 1885 at Hoxton Holy Trinity Church
- John William Reddin. Born 1887 in Hoxton
- Albert E Reddin. Born 1890 in Hoxton
- Florrie May Reddin. Born 1895 in Southwark.
- Elizabeth Reddin. Born 1901
In 1901 their eldest daughter Maria, aged 16 was employed as a book folder. By 1911 only Florrie and Elizabeth remained at home.
In 1939 Maria Reddin was a widowed pensioner living at 10, Rochester Avenue, Feltham.
Maria J Reddin died on 20 May 1945 in Dartford, Kent (Reg Gen June 1945 Dartford 2a 901).
John and Maria's daughter Maria Caroline Reddin is believed to have married Frances Charles Newman Oxman on 1 July 1906 at St Matthais, Poplar. In 1911 they were living at 7 Burgandy Street, Old Kent Road where Frances was a carman for a chemist and druggist. They had two daughters:
- Florence Caroline Oxman. Born 10 November 1906. Baptised 2 December 1906 at St Phillip the Apostle, Camberwell. In 1957, 50 year old Florence returned from Montreal arriving on 8 November. She is described as a clerk and gives her address as 16 Martindale Road, Hounslow. Florence Caroline Oxman of 13 Dryden, Bracknell, Berks died on 3 August 1981.
- Lilian Elizabeth Oxman. Born 1909. Lilian died in 1978 in Bracknell, Berks.
They had a further three children:
- Albert John Frederick Oxman. Born 1911. Died 1915 in Camberwell.
- Charles Vernon Bates Oxman. Born 21 January 1914 in Camberwell. Baptised 15 February 1914 at Dulwich.
- Eileen E Oxman. Born 1916. Died 1916 in Camberwell.
Frederick C N Oxman died in 1953. Maria Caroline Oxman died in 1973
John and Maria's daughter Florrie May Reddin is believed to have married William John Downe on 26 June 1915 at St Phillip the Apostle, Camberwell.
- Mary Ann Banford nee Pasmore
In 1881 William and Sarah's daughter Mary Pasmore was living with her parents in New Street, Lambeth. Aged 14 she is already employed as a domestic servant.
Mary Ann Pasmore married James Banford on 20 May 1888 at St John, Walworth. Mary was a 21 year old spinster, the daughter of William Pasmore, porter. James was a 22 year old labourer, the son of George Banford, deceased.
In 1891 James and Mary Ann were living at 152 Vauxhall Road, Lambeth. James, aged 26 was a carman. Their son James was three months old.
- Clara Ellen Dennett nee Pasmore
William and Sarah's daughter Clara Ellen Pasmore married John Thomas Dennett on 28 December 1893 at St John, Bethnal Green. John was 27 years old, a furrier, the son of William Robert Dennett (deceased) a coffee roaster. Clara was 23 years old the daughter of William Pasmore (deceased) a fellowship porter.
In 1901 they were living at Classion and John, 35 was a furrier. In 1911 the family were living at 82 Clarissa Street, Shoreditch. John, aged 45 was a fur jacket culler for a furrier. They had seven children:
- Clara Alice Dennett. Born 16 November 1894. Baptised 16 December 1894 at St Leonards, Shoreditch.
- Rose Dennett, Born 1897 in Shoreditch
- Lily Florence Dennett. Born 1899 in Shoreditch
- Jesse Dennett. Born 1902 in Shoreditch
- John Dennett. Born 1905 in Shoreditch
- James Dennett. Born 1908 in Shoreditch
- May Dennett. Born 1911 in Shoreditch
In 1911 their daughter Clara was a machinist in a child clothing factory and Rose was an errand girl in a factory.
John T Dennett died in 1939.
Clara Ellen Dennett of 78 Amhurst Road, Hackney, widow, died 6 December 1943 in Hackney Hospital. Probate was granted to Jesse Elizabeth Lovell, married woman.
- Andrew J Pasmore
In 1891 William and Sarah's son Andrew J Pasmore was still living with his parents at 52 Newburn Street, Lambeth. Aged 16, he was employed as a general labourer.
Nothing more is known about Andrew.
George Thomas Pyne and Annie Jane Stroud nee Scott
George Thomas Pyne was born on 4 June 1841 at Walworth Gardens, East Street, Newington the son of Eleanora Pyne, needlewoman. No details are given of George's father. (Reg Gen June Qtr 1841 Newington 4 3442).
At the time the 1841 census was taken on 7 June 1841 George is two days old and as yet unnamed. He is living with his mother Eleanor Pine, aged 30 at Walworth Gardens, St Mary's Newington, Surrey (SE17)
In 1851 George Thomas Pyne was 9 years old, a servant without situation was living with his mother Eleanor now described as Eleanor Prouse, George William Prouse, a 40 year old coachman and his three sisters at 3 Elizabeth Place (below ground).
In 1861 George Thomas Pyne was presented with a bible by The Committee of The Blind Schools, St George's Fields, Southwark.
￼This appears to have been the School for the Indigent Blind which opened its first school in 1810 and by 1812 had built a school on 2 acres of ground between the obelisk of St Georges Circus and the premises of the Philanthropic Society. In 1832 it acquired the freehold of the premises and by 1833 had 55 male and 57 female students.
George Thomas Pyne and Annie Jane Stroud married on 10 September 1868 at the parish church of St Botolph, Aldersgate, London. (Reg Gen September Qtr 1868 London Middlesex 1c 9). George Thomas describes himself as a bachelor of full age (i.e. over 21), a professor of singing living at 51 Lauderdale Buildings. No details are given of his father. Annie Jane describes herself as a widow living at 14 Cross Key Square. No occupation is given. Her father is shown as James George Scott, a nautical instrument maker. Both George and Annie were only able to make their mark. The witnesses were James Matthew Hutchinson and Elizabeth Hutchinson.￼
Ann Jane Scott was born on 26 April 1839 and was baptised on 9 September 1839, the daughter of James Scott, mathematical instrument maker and Jane Knight. They were living at Jamaica Road, Bermondsey when Ann was baptised.
James George Scott had married Jane Knight, a widow of full age on 25 September 1837 at St Dunstan, Stephney. James gives his occupation as brass worker. James George Scott father is James Scott, a mariner. Jane also gives her father's name as James Scott, mariner. I had initially thought this was an error on the certificate, but it is possible she was Jane Scott who had married David Knight in 1835 in Whitechapel. David and Jane had a daughter Louisa in 1836 who in 1851 is living with the James and Jane at 17, Bermondsey Wall, Bermondsey, Southwark James is listed as a nautical instrument maker. Jane's niece, Elizabeth Knight, aged 17 was visiting. Ann Jane Scott, who would have been about 13 is not listed. James and Jane had at least two other children:
- James Alfred Scott. Born 1846. Baptised 1 July 1846 at St Mary's, Bermondsey. James married Susannah Eliza Smith on 28 February 1876 at All Souls, Newington. They had a son James Alfred John Scott born on 31 March 1880, who was granted the Freedom of the City of London on 14 July 1921.
- Francis David Scott. Born 1849. Baptised 22 August 1852 at Bermondsey Christchurch. Francis married Emma Lois Judd in 1877. Emma had been married previously and had a daughter Emily Jane Billings (born 1869). They had a son Walter Scott (born 1878) and a daughter Alice Jane Scott (born 1879). Francis died in 1927 and was buried on 24 February 1927 at Southwark.
I can find no trace of the family in 1861. In 1871 James and Jane were living at 17 Nautical Makers House, Southwark. James, aged 70 is still described as a nautical instrument maker. It appears that Jane had died by 1881 and James had possibly remarried. The family were living at 17 Bermondsey Wall, Bermondsey. James, aged 79, still a nautical instrument maker was 6 years younger than his new wife Emma who by then was 85 years old. Son Francis, shown as unmarried! was living with them along with children Emily, aged 12, Walter, aged 3 and Jane, aged 2. Its not clear what happened here for later census returns show Francis living with wife Emma and their children. I do wonder if James had not remarried and the transcriber got the relationships and ages wrong. Emma was 5 years older than Francis. James George Scott of Bermondsey Wall, died in 1882 and was buried in Southwark on 13 December 1882.
Annie Jane Pyne had previously been married to Henry Stroud. The marriage had taken place on 14 February 1863. Henry Stroud was a cabinet maker from 118, High Street, Borough, the son of Joseph Stroud, law stationer. No occupation is given for Ann Jane Scott but her address is shown as 17, Bermondsey Wall, Bermondsey. Her father was James George Scott, mathematical instrument maker. He was also one of the witnesses. Henry and Ann were both described as "of full age".
Henry Stroud died in 1866 aged 36 years (Reg Gen Dec 1866 Bermondsey 1d 54)
George and Annie were both musicians and performed together. Local newspaper reports of the time include:
"6 March 1869 - "Surrey Comet, London".
On Friday evening last week the choral class of the British Association of the Blind assisted by the other blind artistes gave their annual concert at the New Lecture Hall..............The lions share of the favour, however was bestowed on Madame Annie Pyne and Mr G T Pyne, the singing of the later "The Wolf" and "Will O the Wisp" being so good as to be redemanded. Madame Pyne was encored for her delivery of "bid me discourse" substituting "I dreamt I dwell in Marble Halls" which she sung remarkable well.
20 March 1869 - "St Pancreas, Holborn and Bloomsbury Journal".
The Blind Choral Class gave its fourth concert at Birbeck Institute, Southampton Buildings, Chancery Lane.................. Mr G T Pyne sang "Speed on my bark" in a manner that moved the enthusiasm of the company and was encored. Madame Annie Pyne, a young blind lady of pleasing appearance and who we understand had recently become the wife of the conductor of the concert sang "Tell me with my heart" in first rate style and in a subsequent humorous duet "Town and Country or Guardian and Ward" with Mr Pyne displayed a power that made us feel although deprived of one of natures great facilities she is wonderfully blessed with the gift of song".
28 May 1870 - "St Pancreas, Holborn and Bloomsbury Journal".
On Friday evening, the Blind Choral Class gave their annual conference at Birbeck Institute, Southampton Buildings, Holborn...............a good opening followed by selections from "Messiah" in which...........Madame Annie Pyne............and Mr G T Pyne took solo parts....................Mr G T Pyne with much humour sang "who'll serve the Queen" he was also encored. Madame Annie Pyne sang a "Cavitans Depiacer" (Rossini) accompanying herself on the pianoforte in the most brilliant manner..............a humorous duet between Madame Annie and Mr G T Pyne "Mr & Mrs Naggleton" was received with a perfect storm of applause and nothing would content but an encore .
10 December 1870 - "Marylebone Mercury".
"The Blind Choral Class" .
On Tuesday an evening chorus was given at St Mark's School, Marylebone. Madame Annie Pyne, a lady possessing pure soprano voice in her rendering of "With Verdure Clad" was all that could be desired was loudly applauded. Other vocalists included Mr Pyne.
5 August 1871 - "Marylebone Mercury".
The Red Lion Square Choir gave a concert (which was intended to be the last of the season) at the Lecture Hall, Seymour Street, Portman Square on Tuesday last......... The first piece calling for comment was "The Lark" by Madame Annie Pyne which was well sung that an encore was demanded and a scotch song substituted. Mr G T Pyne (the conductor) who is evidently a favourite both with the audience and the choir sang "The Scout" and as encore "I'm not myself at all, Molly Dear" with considerable humour, afterwards singing humorous duets with his wife. That lady late in the evening gave with much spirit "ell me my heart" and on an enthusiastic demand for endorsing "Home Sweet Home" with great feeling.
18 November 1871 - "London City Press".
Concert by Blind at Aldersgate Schools by Mr G T Pyne and H Chapman, conductors of the "Red Lion Square Choir of Blind Performers" Mr G Pyne conducting.............instrumental parts supported by.............Madame Annie Pyne........... Vocalists included Madame Annie Pyne
The 1871 census shows George and Annie living at 100 Aldersgate, St Botolph without London. The entry reads;
- George T Pyne, head, married, aged 29, blind from the age of 3 months, a teacher of singing born Walworth, Surrey
- Annie J Pyne, wife, married, aged 29, blind from the age of 3 years, a teacher of piano and singing, born Bermondsey, Surrey
- Ada Annie Pyne, daughter, unmarried, aged 1, born St Botolph without London,
- Helena Pyne, George's mother, aged 62, no entry for 'where born' on original census.
- Mary A Jones, aged 13, servant, born Bermondsey, Surrey.
Ada Annie Pyne was born on 19 November 1869 at 100 Aldersgate Street, Cripplegate, the daughter of George Thomas Pyne, teacher of music and "Amy" (per birth certificate) Jane Pyne formerly Scott. Annie registered the birth leaving her mark. The registrar must have misheard her Christian name (Reg Gen. Dec Qtr 1869 West London 1C 25). Ada was baptised on 27 November 1870 at St Bartholomew.
Grace Florence Pyne was born on 23 September 1871 at 100 Aldersgate Street, Cripplegate. Her birth certificate shows her parents to be George Thomas Pyne and Annie Jane Pyne formerly Scott. Her fathers profession is given as a musician. Her mother registered the birth and only made her mark (Reg Gen Dec Qtr 1871 London City 1c 14) .
The couple's third daughter, Edith Eleanor Pyne was born on 21 February 1876 at 20 Edmund's Place, Cripplegate. London. Her birth certificate gives George's profession as vocalist. He registered the birth simply making his mark (Reg Gen June Qtr 1876 London City 1C 11).
George Thomas Pyne died on 2 May 1878 at 20 Edmunds Place, London aged 36. (Reg Gen June Qtr 1878 London City 1a 90). The cause of death is given as asthma. The informant was A Stone, resident of 20 Edmunds Place.
By the time of the 1881 census Annie Jane Pyne had remarried and was living at 8 Osman Street, Tottenham, London (RG11/1385/108/42). The entry shows
- Frederick K Swanson, head, married, aged 54, teacher of music, born Woolwich, Kent
- Annie J Swanson, wife, married, aged 35 (should be 39?), teacher of music, born Bermondsey, Surrey
- Ada A Pyne, daughter, aged 11, born (City), Middlesex
- Grace F Pyne, daughter, aged 9, born (City), Middlesex
- Edith E Pyne, daughter, aged 5, born (City), Middlesex
- Wm T Smithers, visitor, married, aged 23, gasfitter, born Woolwich, Kent.
It seems William may have been George Thomas Pyne's nephew (see above)
Frederick Swanson and Annie Jane Pyne had married on 3 July 1880 at The Holy Trinity Church, Lee, London (Reg Gen Sept Qtr 1880 Lewisham 1d 381). Banns had earlier been read on 13 June 1880, 20 June 1880 and 27 June 1880 at St George, Bloomsbury. Frederick is described as being of the Parish of Holy Trinity, Lea, Kent and Annie Jane Pyne was of the parish of St George, Bloombury.
Annie is described as a widow of full age living at St George St, Bloomsbury. Her father is given as James George Scott, nautical instrument maker. Frederick is described as a bachelor of full age, an organist living in Lee. Only his fathers surname is entered on the certificate and he is described as a gentleman. The copy supplied by the General Registrar Office shows that both Frederick and Annie signed the register, but this may not be an accurate representation of the actual certificate. The witnesses were Charles John Bond and Mary Ellen Cooke.
￼The only earlier record located of Frederic Swanson is at the time of the 1851 census when, aged 24 and unmarried he is living at 5 Park Row, Charlton and working as an organist at Blackheath Church. Interestingly the census notes that he too was blind. At the time he was living with housekeeper, Mary J Hampton, aged 39 and general servant, Elizabeth Smith, aged 15.
Various newspaper reports in the press suggest that Frederick, Annie an her daughters toured regional theatres performing as a family ensemble, for example:
2 January 1884 - "Kent & Sussex Courier"
The Servants Home, The Lodge, 45, St James Road, Tunbridge Wells, Kent.
Arrangements have been made with the "Blind Minstrels" from London to give a series of vocal and instrumental concerts in aid of the above institution . To be held
- Monday January 8th - St James Boys schoolrooms
- Wednesday January 10th - Young Mans Hall, Vale Road
- Thursday January 11th - St Marks School room, Broadwater
- Friday January 12th - Parochial Hall, Southborough
Doors open at 7.30 p.m. To commence 8 p.m. Carriages may be ordered at 9.45 pm. Artistes
- Mr Swanson
- Madame Swanson Pyne
- Miss Pyne
- Miss Grace Pyne
- Mr Freeman
For further particulars see handbills.
16 April 1887 - "Hastings and St Leonards Observor
"An evening concert at the Assembly Rooms, St Leonards by the Swanson Pyne family The family consists of Madame Swanson Pyne, Miss Ada Pyne, Miss Grace Pyne, Miss Edith Pyne, Miss Howard, Mr Henry and Mr Swanson who "although blind acted as accompanist in the most efficient manner"
21 May 1887 - "Hastings and St Leonards Observer"
Concert, last Friday evening, the Swanson Pyne Family, with assistance of a number of local gentleman carried out a capital concert at the public hall................commenced with.................the musicians were..........Mr Swanson, pianoforte.....................followed by a trio "Memory" by Madame Swanson Pyne and Misses Grace & Ada Pyne.
10 December 1887 - "Hastings and St Leonards Observer"
"The Swanson Pyne Family's Farewell" .
This family whose concerts on the parade during the summer gave two final farewell entertainments in the Crush Room of the Royal Concert Hall on Thursday afternoon and evening. Programme presented by Mr & Mrs Swanson - Pyne, the Misses Grace, Ada and Edith Pyne, Miss Annie Somersfield and Mr C R Payne.
The performance started with the Madigral from "The Mikado" "Brightly dawns our wedding day" which was followed by "The Pretty Little Flower" duet from Ruddigore by Miss Grace Pyne and Mr Payne
Miss Edith Pyne , a young lady of 12 years old contributed Arne's "When Daisies Pied". Mrs Pyne sung artistically Rossini Cavatine "Di Piacer" and Arditri's "Beauties Sleep" and also took part with her daughters in the trio "Memory" and with Mr Pyne and Mr Payne in "The Magic Wove Scarf".
Miss Ada Pyne was recalled for "The Lost Chord" and gave "Little Buttercup" and Miss Grace Pyne gained a similar complement for a "Penny for your Thoughts" and replied with "Cockles & Mussells"
Miss Summerfield " a little 9 year old pupil of Mrs Pyne played a piano solo in exemplification of the fact , as Mr Pyne pointed out to the audience that blind people are capable of teaching. The little pianist was encored and contributed "Home Sweet Home", the chorus of bridesmaids "Fair is Rose" from Ruddigore was well received and several part songs made up the programme which passed off very successfully, The family we may remark is obliged to leave Hastings for Mrs Pynes health"
By 1891 two of George and Annie Pyne's daughters had married, but both were living with her and her third husband at 96 Court Hill Road, Lewisham, Kent. The entry reads
- Frederic Swanson, head, aged 64, singer, born Woolwich, Kent
- Annie J Swanson, wife, aged 44 (should be 49?), singer, born Bermondsey, London
- Ada A Fraser, daughter, married, aged 21, born London City (no occupation given)
- Grace G Taylor, daughter, married, aged 19, operatic artist, born London City
- Edith E Pyne, daughter, aged 15, born London City (no occupation given)
- Frederick Fraser, grandson, aged 11 months, born Lewisham, Kent
- Reginald G Taylor, grandson, aged 4 months, born Lewisham, Kent
- Marian Billings, niece, aged 20, born Peckham, Surrey
The 1891 Electorial Register shows Frederick Swanson as resident at 96 Court Hill Road, but eligible to vote because of qualifying property at 96 Court Hill Road and 30 Ladywell Park.
In the 10 years between 1891 and 1901, Annie's husband Frederick appears to have died, but no trace has been found of his death.
So by 1901 Annie Swanson having been widowed again, was boarding with Mark Allen, a 63 year old self employed ship porter (docks) and his 56 year old wife Sarah at 269 Halley Road, East Ham, Essex. The occupants of the house include:
- Annie Swanson, boarder (head), widow, aged 60, teacher of music on own account at home, blind,
- Edith Pine (transcribed as Line, but looks more like Pine on original return and the age fits), boarder, aged 25, born Bermondsey. An occupation is given. This is not really legible, but could be actress,
- Constance Pine (transcribed as Line), boarder, aged 4, born Bermondsey.
In 1911 Ann J Swanson, aged 72 and "of private means" was living with her daughter Ada A Fraser (see below) at 116 Third Avenue, Manor Park East, West Ham.
Ann Jane Swanson died on 5 January 1921 aged 84 years old (Reg Gen March Qtr 1921 West Ham 4a 234). She is described as the widow of Frederick Swanson, organist of 143 Carlisle Road, East Ham, London. The cause of death was senility and gangrene feet!. It is noted that there was no PM (post mortem). The informant who registered the death the following day was her niece A.S Howard of 40 First Avenue, Manor Park. It is unclear how A S Howard fits in at present. However her daughter Ada with whom she was living in 1911 had emigrated to Canada in 1912.
- Ada Annie Fraser nee Pyne
Ada Annie Pyne had been born on 19 November 1869 at 100 Aldersgate Street, Cripplegate, the daughter of George Thomas Pyne, teacher of music and "Amy" (per birth certificate) Jane Pyne formerly Scott (Reg Gen. Dec Qtr 1869 West London 1C 25). Ada was baptised on 27 November 1870 at St Bartholomew.
In 1881, aged 11 she is living with her mother and step-father at Osman Street, Tottenham.
In 1891, aged 21, Ada A Fraser is living with her mother and step father at 96 Court Hill Road, Lewisham. With her is her 11 month old son Frederick Fraser.
Ada Annie Pyne had married William Alexander Fraser on 3 March 1890 in Kettering (Reg Gen March Qtr 1890 Kettering 3b 201). Ada is described as a 20 year old spinster, a vocalist living in Northall. Her father is given as George Thomas Pyne, violinist. William Alexander Fraser was a 24 year old bachelor, also a vocalist from Northall. His father is given as Thomas Alexander Fraser, butler. The witnesses were Alfred and Barbara Jillians (?).
Frederick Alexander Thomas Fraser had been born on 19 April 1890 (Reg Gen June Qtr 1890 Lewisham 1d 1092).
In 1901 Ada A Fraser, aged 31, born London was living at 393 Shirrard(?) Road, Forest Gate, East Ham with her children
- Cyril Archibald Fraser. Born 5 September 1894 (Reg Gen Dec Qtr 1894 St Olave, Southwark 1D 237),
- Miriam Eleanor Fraser. Born 1897 (Reg Gen March Qtr 1897 St Olave, Southwark 1d 311)
- Lawrence David Fraser. Born 13 October 1899 (Reg Gen Dec Qtr 1899 St Olave, Southwark 1d 237) and aged 1 year 6 months when the census was taken.
All the children as shown as having been born in Bermondsey. Ada is described as a music hall artist. Also living at the same address were Mary Jones, widow, aged 60, daughter Louisa Jones. aged 27, bookfolder (binder) and Mary's grandsons, Wallis Boome, aged 13 and George Boome, aged 9.
Later records also indicate that William and Ada had another son Ernest William Fraser on 24 August 1892 (see below). It is unclear where Frederick, Ernest or their father would have been when the 1901 census was take but Ernest William Fraser may have been a pupil at "Galley Wall Road School", Southwark, London on 26 April 1897.
In 1911 Ada A Fraser was living at 116 Third Avenue, Manor Park East Ham. She was 40 years old and described as "at home" .
￼Originally there was an entry above, I presume for her husband William Fraser but this has been scored out and is not legible. Ada initially describes herself as a wife of 22 years, but both these entries are scored out and her position in household altered to "head". This is the original form completed by Ada and I wonder why these entries were made. Was William around, but just not at home at the time or had something else happened? Again no other record for William Alexander Fraser has been traced. Also at the address at the time were 14 year old daughter Miriam and 11 year old son Lawrence as well as Ada's mother Ann J Swanson.
It is not clear where William and Ada's sons Frederick Alexander Fraser or Ernest William Fraser were in 1901 nor where they were in 1911. I have also been unable to locate Cyril Archibald Fraser in the 1911 census at present.
I had been told that Ada had five sons and one daughter, which seems to be correct. However I had also been told that all of her sons had perished in the Great War and that she and her remaining family had moved to Australia where they too all died in tragic circumstances. However this also appears not to be the case.
In 1921 Ada Fraser, a 51 year old widow, was living in Walkerville, Essex, Ontario, Canada with her 21 year old son Lawrence, her widowed daughter, Miriam, aged 24 and her three grandchildren. The census indicates they had arrived in 1911.
Ada Annie Fraser died on 30 January 1934, aged 64, in Windsor, Essex, Canada. The death certificate describes her as the daughter of Alexander Pine and Annie Pine nee Scott, born 19 November 1869 in London. Although the father's name is incorrect this is clearly Ada. The certificate also states that she was a widow, her occupation is given as a housekeeper and she died of double pneumonia. The certificate also notes that she had been resident in Canada for 22 years. This confirms that the family emigrated in about 1911. The informant was Cyril Fraser of 1035 François Road, East Windsor. Ada was buried at Victoria Memorial on 2 February 1934.
All of Ada and William's son's also appear to have settled in Canada.
Frederick Alexander Thomas Fraser, a fitter, aged 24, son of William Alexander Fraser and Ada Annie Fraser nee Pyne, married Emily Amelia Winifred Walton, a tailoress, aged 23, daughter of Edward Richard Walton, a gardener and Louisa Walton formerly Kimber on 19 August 1914 at Clinton, Huron, Ontario, Canada. No occupation is given for William Alexander Fraser which indicates he could have died by 1914. Frederick Alexander Thomas Fraser, aged 27 (born 19 April 1891 in London), husband of Emily A W Fraser enlisted on 17 February 1917. It is not known what became of him.
Ernest William Fraser, a labourer, aged 22, son of William Fraser and Ada Fraser nee Pyne married Katherine Jane Fox, aged 20, daughter of James Alma Fox and Katherine Smith at Goderich, Ontario on 28 October 1914. The witnesses include Frederick A T Smith. Ernest William Fraser, aged 24 (born 24 August 1892 in London), a mill hand from Goderich, Ontario, husband of Katherine Fraser enlisted in the Canadian Overseas Expeditionary Forces on 4 January 1916. He survived the war only to witness the death of his wife, Katherine Jane Kitty Fraser, aged 32, on 3 December 1926 from pulmonary tuberculosis.
Their brother Cyril Archibald Fraser, aged 20 (born 5 September 1895 in London) had already enlisted on 12 August 1915. At the time his next of kin is given as Mrs Ada Annie Fraser. Cyril survived the war. Only 6 months before its end he married. On 18 May 1918 Cyril Archibald Fraser, aged 23, a machinist, son of Thomas Fraser and Ada Annie Fraser nee Pyne, married Violet Elizabeth Godfrey, aged 18, daughter of George F Godfrey and Emily Eliza Carr. They had a son Ernest Fraser in 1919. In 1921 the family were living with Violet's parents in Ford City, Essex North. Cyril was the informant when his mother died in 1934. He may have died in 1985 and was buried at Green Lawn Memorial Gardens, Oldcastle, Essex, Ontario.
Miriam Eleanor Fraser had married Stanley Herbert Moore, but had been widowed by the time that the 1921 census was taken. It is believed her husband Stanley had died on 23 March 1921 and had been buried in Mount Royal Cemetary, Montreal. At the time the census was taken on 7 June 1921 she was living with her widowed mother Ada in Walkerville, Essex, Ontario with her three children
- Frederick Ernest Moore. Born 8 November 1913 in Huron,
- Stanley Moore. Born 1916
- Winnifred Moore. Born 1917
It appears Miriam would have only been 16 years old when she had her first child. On 2 December 1922, Miriam remarried, her second husband was Frederick Thomas R Arnold. Her husband was from Michigan, Detroit. Frederick Robert Thomas Arnold died on 26 June 1944 at Camp Borden, Simcoe. His next of kin was Mrs Miriam Arnold of 1624 Hickory Road, Windsor, Essex. Miriam's son Fredick had married Albertine Maria Larsh on 28 March 1933 in Windsor, Essex, Ontario. Nothing more is known about their children.
Lawrence David Fraser, aged 18 (born 13 October 1899) also enlisted on 3 December 1917, giving his mother as next of kin. He too survived the war and on 22 September 1923 married Elsie May Wilmot, aged 21, daughter of Albert Wilmot and Mary Cooper. At the time of his marriage 23 year old Lawrence is described as a machinist. Lawrence died on 25 July 1972 and was buried in Victoria Memorial Gardens, Windsor, Essex, Ontario.
- Grace Florence Ponting formerly Green Taylor nee Pyne
Grace Florence Pyne was born on 23 September 1871 at 100 Aldersgate Street, Cripplegate, London, the daughter of George Thomas and Annie Jane Pyne (Reg Gen Dec Qtr 1871 London City 1c 14).
Grace Florence Pyne was baptised on 12 November 1871 at Jewry Street Methodist Church. The family was still living at 100 Aldersgate Street.
In 1881, Grace, aged 9 was living with her mother and step father and 2 sisters at 8 Osman Street, Tottenham, London.
By the age of 18 Grace was on the stage. The "D'Oyly Carte - Who Was Who" website confirms that she was engaged to appear on 7 January 1890 as Giulia in the first American production of the Gondoliers at the Park Theatre, New York. The production was not successful and closed in February 1890. When it was launched again at Palmers Theatre Grace no longer had a named part.
Returning to Britain later on in the year she joined the D'Oyly Carte Opera Company E and filled in on occasion as Casilda in The Gondoliers in October 1890 and December 1890 and January 1892 and February 1892.
The following press reports have been located:
11 October 1890 - "The Era, London".
"Miss Grace Pyne as Casilda acts gracefully and sings with effect".
22 December 1891 - "Gloucester Citizen"
"Iolanthe - Mr D'Oyly Carte's Opera Company at "New Theatre and Opera House. Leading fairies Misses Grace Pyne, Marie Arnold and Beatrice Perry"
19 January 1892 - "Exeter and Plymouth Gazette" .
"The Gondoliers at Exeter Theatre The part of Casilda was essayel by Miss Grace Pyne who infused considerable life into the character and supported a taking voice with a charming appearance"
￼It appears it was here that Grace met her first husband. Tenor Joseph Green Taylor appeared on tour with Company C as Leonard Meryll in The Yeoman of the Guard in December 1888 and later toured with Company E appearing as Marco in The Gondoliers in April 1890 filling in for the regular Marco.
Joseph Green Taylor and Grace Florence Pyne were married in Derby on 5 May 1890 (Reg Gen June Qtr 1890 Derby 7b 860). The certificate shows that they were both of full age and living at 5 Hill Brow, Forester Street, Derby. Joseph is described as an actor. His father was David Green Taylor, deceased, a former publican. Grace's father is given as George Thomas Pyne, musician. Both signed the register. The witnesses were Alfred and Marie Loftree.
￼Although making a living, neither Joseph or Grace appear to have been the most successful of the D'Oyly Carte's performers. An article from 'The Gilbert and Sullivan Newsletter Archive' describes Greene Taylor with the Gondoliers in April 1890 playing at Ashton-under Lyne, Macclesfield, Derby, Wolverhampton, Dudley and Gloucester and whilst quoting an article which describes him as showing 'considerable aptitude as Marco' goes on to describe him as of 'average ability'.
Joseph and Grace Florence Greene Taylor had two surviving children
- Reginald Green Taylor. Born 7 March 1891 at 96 Court Hill Road, Lewisham (Reg Gen June Qtr 1891 Lewisham 1d 1174).
- Muriel Green Taylor. Born on 14 September 1893 at 173 Saint James Road, Bermondsey (Reg Gen Dec Qtr 1893 St Olave, Southwark 1d 247) Joseph's occupation is given as actor. Grace registered the birth. Muriel Taylor was baptised on 11 October 1893 at St Anne's, Bermondsey.
At the time of the 1891 census Grace was living with her mother and step father at 96 Court Hill Road, Lewisham. She is described as an operatic artist and had recently given birth to her first son Reginald G Taylor who was 4 months old. Joseph Green Taylor was not present at the address at the time the census was taken.
Joseph and Grace continued with their careers after the birth of their children:
13 November 1894 - "Norwich Post", Suffolk, England.
"Morocco Bound" at Bury Theatre. Mr Greene Taylor is to be congratulated upon his successful interpretation of the character of Squire Higgins, the retired cosher who was "not ashamed of it" His accent was mostly striking and his wonderful facial expressions and numerous feats of agility caused roars of laughter. Amongst the ladies Miss Grace Pyne gave a finished rendering of the role of Comtesse de le Blague".
1 December 1894 - "The Era" , London.
"Bliss Grace Pyne who possesses a powerful voice is encored for her singing"
28 December 1895 - "Huddersfield Chronicle", West Yorkshire.
"The Christmas pantomime at the Theatre Royal, "Cinderella". Miss Grace Pyne being a graceful and beautiful fairy. A word of praise must be given to Mr Greene Taylor for his discretion in not over doing, but at the same time making the most of the part of Buttons".
The D'Oyly Carte 'Who Was Who' mentions that Joseph Green Taylor later appeared in London as Sergeant O'Flynn in the musical King Kodak at Terry's Theatre in 1894
27 June 1896 - "The Era", London
"Newmarket". Miss Grace Pyne amusing as the easily irritated and irritating Mrs Napoleon Jones"
7 October 1898 - "The Derry Journal", Londonderry.
"Mr Branscombb 3 Company, The Opera House. The present engagement in the IOUI theatre ensuring extensive patronage from Olty playgoers "Morocco Bond" In their respective roles............Miss Grace Pyne..............all dressed nicely and enunciate their passages of the dialogue with an intelligence which invests their comparatively minor parts with some interest. Mr Greene Taylor shows the esquire to be a very funny fellow".
At the time that the 1901 census was taken Joseph Greene Taylor, aged 40, born Warwick, Birmingham and in the theatrical profession and Grace Taylor, aged 28 also in the theatrical profession were boarding in Bradford with Albert P Kaberry a commercial traveller and his wife Eliza.
Their children Reginald aged 10 and Muriel aged 7 were 'visiting' William Worpell, a joiner, aged 64 and his wife Ellen aged 63 at 73 South Lambeth Road, Lambeth.
On 8 December 1903 Grace Florence Green Taylor of 33 London Road, Clapham petitioned for divorce. In her petition she states that after their marriage she and Joseph had also lived at 33 South Lambeth Road in Surrey.
In April 1898 Joseph Green- Taylor had committed adultery with an unknown woman. Grace forgave him on this occasion and continued to live with him at South Lambeth Road but in May 1903 he once again committed adultery although on this occasion both the woman and the place are unknown.
The decree nisi was issued on 18 July 1904. And so it was not as I had assumed that Joseph and Grace divorced when Dudley came on the scene. However a further surprise coming out in the divorce petition was that the "petitioner and the said Joseph Green Taylor had issue of their said marriage six children of whom two are surviving, namely Reginald Green Taylor, aged 13 years and Muriel Green Taylor aged 10 years"
The divorce was reported in the press as follows:
19 July 1904 - Shields Daily Gazette, Tyne on Wear
(but also reported in Western Times, Devon on the same day and the Cheltenham Chronicle on 23 July).
"Theatrical Divorce Case".
"In the divorce court yesterday Mrs Grace Florence Green Taylor was granted a decree nisi because of the cruelty of her husband Joseph Green Taylor. Counsel said the parties who were both members of the theatrical profession, the petitioner being known as Grace Florence Pyne was a member of the late D'Oyly Carte Opera Company. Respondent was given to in temperance and temper and had several times struck his wife violent blows".
On 12 December 1905 Grace, aged 30, married Dudley James Ponting, aged 26 (Chapter 13) at Lambeth Registry Office. Dudley states that he is the divorced husband of Mabel Annie Ponting formerly Clements. He describes himself as a music hall artiste, although I doubt that was the case and gives his address as 33 London Road, Stockwell. His father is recorded as William Ponting deceased, master linen draper. Grace describes herself as Grace Florence Green-Taylor, formerly Pyne, divorced wife of Joseph Green Taylor daughter of George Thomas Pyne, deceased musician. She also gives her address as 33 London Road, Stockwell. No occupation is given for Grace Florence who would have been a couple of months pregnant at the time. The witnesses were A H Pennett, Edith Pennett and A E Morgan and one other. A H Pennett, was Arthur Henry Pennett, theatrical property master who had married Grace's sister Edith the month before.
Grace continued to perform on stage after she married Dudley, although it is thought by that time she had left the D'Oyly Carte and was appearing in musical theatre. A few names she mentioned knowing or appearing with include "Nellie Wallace", "Daisy James", "Little Titch", "Fred Karno" and "Bransby Williams". It is believed she performed at the Hippodrome in Eastbourne. She also mentioned a "George Black" who was an impressario or agent in connection with her work.
￼Joseph Greene Taylor died on 13 September 1907 aged 48 at General Hospital, Birmingham. His death certificate describes him as Joseph Greene Taylor , an "actor in musical comedy company of Theatre Royal New Street, Birmingham". The cause of death was "morbus cordis" and "syncope", basically heart disease and loss of consciousness restricting the blood flow to the brain,. "Morbis Cordis" was often used where the exact cause of death was unknown but they were sure it was natural causes. The informant was A E Thompson, sister in charge of the ward at the General Hospital. (Reg Gen Sept Qtr 1907 Birmingham (1837-1924) 6d 76).
Described in the probate records as "Greene Taylor of Lyric Theatre, Shaftesbury Avenue", limited administration was granted on 13 November 1907 to Grace Florence Ponting, described in the records as "wife of Dudley James Ponting". His effects were valued at £70 6s 11d (about £5k in 2006).
As described in Chapter 13 Grace and Dudley went on to have four children together
- Gracie Joan Ponting. Born 27 July 1906 (Reg Gen Sept Qtr 1906 Hendon 3a 338).
- William Dudley Ponting. Born 22 October 1907 (Reg Gen Dec Qtr 1907 Hendon 3a 312)
- Arthur James Ponting. Born 30 July 1909 (Reg Gen Sept Qtr 1909 Hailsham 2b 79)
- Maude Jeannette Mary Ponting. Born 14 May 1913 (Reg Gen June Qtr 1913 Hailsham 2b 152)
And lived together in both London and Sussex (where they were at the time that the 1911 census was taken) before separating sometime in the 1920's.
Mrs Ponting at 28, Castellain Road, Maida Vale first appears in the London telephone directory in 1921. Between 1926 to 1928 Mrs D Ponting is listed at Castellain Road. The electoral register also confirms Dudley and Grace were at the address in 1921, 1924 and 1926.
The photograph below was taken in 1925 and was given to her daughter Gracie Joan Ponting
In 1939 Grace was living with her niece Winifred Elsie Garside at 99B Park Road, Blackpool. She is described as being 'independent'.
When her husband Dudley died in 1943, Grace was living at 78 Bisham Road, Blackpool.
Grace Florence Ponting lived out her last years with her daughter, Gracie Joan, her son -in-law, James Richard Barton and grandsons at Bywood, Ninfield, East Sussex.
The photograph below showing Grace and her grandsons was taken in 1947 and was kindly provided by Monique McCall
As was this photograph showing Grace Florence, her son William Dudley and daughter Gracie Joan.
Grace Florence Ponting died on 1 March 1949 and was buried in Ninfield Churchyard.
Dudley and Grace's children are dealt with at Chapter 13.
Both of Grace's children from her first marriage were living with her at The Hollies, Boreham Street at the time the 1911 census was taken
In 1911 Reginald Greene-taylor was a butchers assistant. He married twice. On 31 December 1921 he married Edith Maria Fry formerly Crawford at Lambeth Registrar Office. Reginald was 31 years old, a wholesale butcher, the son of Joseph Greene Taylor (deceased), actor. Edith was 34 years old, the divorced wife of William Henry Fry and the daughter of Andrew Crawford (deceased), butler. The witnesses were E J Hall and M Hodger (Reg Gen Dec Qtr 1921 Lambeth 1d 770). Edith Maria Crawford had married William Henry Fry on 18 January 1911 (Reg Gen March Qtr 1911 Lambeth 1d 377). They divorced in 1918 (National archives J77/1404/3127), but Edith later had a daughter Edith Dee Fry, born on 12 January 1920. It is believed that daughter Edith was in fact Reginald's daughter. Edith Maria Greene-taylor of 119 Norwood Road, Herne Hill, Surrey died on 27 May 1925 at Charing Cross Hospital, Strand (Reg Gen June 1925 St Martin 1a 499). Probate was granted to Reginald Greene Taylor, meat salesman.
Reginald Green-taylor re-married in 1929, his second wife was Elizabeth Charlotte Potter. Elizabeth had previously been married to Percy Eden, Elizabeth and Percy had married in Edmonton in 1918 (Reg Gen March Qtr 1918 Edmonton 3a 1209). Percy Eden died in 1920 (Reg Gen March 1920 Edmonton 3a 762). In 1939 Reginald and Elizabeth were living at 107 Newlands Park, Lewisham and Reginald was a meat salesman at Smithfield Market. Reginald and Elizabeth had a son, Colin Greene-taylor, born on 20 October 1939.
Elizabeth C Greene-taylor died in 1961 (Reg Gen March 1961 Lewisham 5d 63). Reginald Greene-taylor died in 1975 (Reg Gen Sept 1975 Lewisham 14 0640).
In 1939, Edith (and Reginald's) daughter Edith Green-taylor was living with Arthur Ponting and his wife "Hylda" Ponting at 172, Broom Road, Twickenham. She was a butchers assistant (sales). Arthur was Reginald Green Taylor's half brother (Chapter 14). In 1944 Edith married Alfred B Peters. Alfred died in 1961. Edith Peters of 13 Fitchet Close, Langley Green, Crawley, West Sussex died on 11 May 1990.
Grace's daughter from her first marriage Muriel G Taylor married Bertram Dawes on 22 April 1915 at Manor Park Registry Office, London (Reg Gen June Qtr 1915 Wandsworth 1d 1704). They had four children, all registered in Hailsham district.
- Bertram Edwin Dawes. Born 30 August 1916.
- Joan Mary Dawes. Born 9 April 1922.
- Mavis Margaret Dawes. Born 25 March 1929
- Lesley Joseph Dawes. Born 16 July 1932.
In 1939 Bertram Dawes, a plumber working on his own account was living with his wife Muriel (pictured below) and family at Harts Yard, Hailsham.
Bert Dawes died on 5 March 1970 aged 78 years at The Rocks Cottages, Victoria Road, Herstmonceux (Reg Gen March Qtr 1970 5H 1091). Muriel Dawes died on 25 February 1983. She had been living with her half sister Gracie Joan Barton at Bywood, Ninfield, prior to her death.
Their son Bertram Edwin Dawes married Kathleen King on 28 August 1937. They had three children. In 1939 Bertram and family were living at 12, Harold Terrace, Battle. Bertram was a plumber and hot water fitter. Major Bertram Edwin Dawes (277581), Army Catering Corps. V was awarded an MBE in 1961 Queens Birthday honours. Bert died in 1998.
Their daughter, Joan Mary Dawes was a war bride who married John Ross Maywood on 11 March 1944 (Reg Gen March Qtr 1944 Hailsham 2b 189). On 18 June 1946 Joan M Maywood and her daughter Jacqueline S Maywood, aged 1 year 10 months travel from Liverpool to Halifax on the "Letita". This seems to be a shipment of troops relatives and her husband is identified as "SGT B75558". The family visit the UK a few years later. On 22 December 1949 John, Joan and Jackie arrived in Liverpool on the "Franconia", they were going to stay in Boreham Street. On 23 September 1950 Joan and her daughter return to Montreal from Southampton on the Canberra. Joan was 28 years old at the time and her daughter Jacqueline was 6 years old. It is assumed that John had returned earlier. In 1962 they were living at 239, Roxton Road, Trinity, Toronto where John was a crane operator.
Joan, Ross and their daughter are pictured below:
John Ross Maywood died in 1989. Joan Mary Maywood died on 2 January 2012 at Oakville, Montreal.
Their daughter Margaret Mary Dawes married Kenneth Frederick Densham on 12 May 1951. They had two children. In 1965 they were living at Alexandra Grove, N12. Ken died in 2002.
Their son in Lesley Joseph Dawes married Hilda N Oliver in 1951. They had two children. Les died in 2001 in Devon.
- Edith Eleanor Pennett Formerly Constable nee Pyne
Edith Eleanor Pyne was born on 21 February 1876 at 20 Edmunds Place, Cripplegate, London, the daughter of George Thomas Pyne and Annie Jane Pyne, late Stroud formerly Scott. (Reg Gen June Qtr 1876 London City 1C 11).
Edith was living with her mother and step father at the time that the 1881 and 1891 censuses were taken (see above).
Edith also went on the stage and was a member of the D'Oyly Carte. In 1894 Edith Pyne she travelled on the Campania from Liverpool to New York arriving on 19 March 1894. Aged 18, she gives her occupation as "music". She is listed with a number of others who give their occupation likewise including 20 year old Millicent Pyne (no known relation at present) who was also a her member of Gilbert and Sullivan's troupe. This ties in with Edith having been, between March 1894 and June 1894 a chorister on tour with D'Oyly Carte's American "Utopia Limited" Company, appearing in New York and Boston.
Edith Pyne is listed as having returned to England with the rest of the cast arriving in Liverpool on 4 June 1894. She gives her age as 21, which was clearly incorrect, but I assume this is our 'Edith'
However I have also found this entry in a Boston marriage register in 1894.
On 17 July 1894 Edith E Pyne of Boston, aged 18 married Arthur Fay Constable, aged 24 of New York. Arthur, the son of Jasper Constable and Adelia A Cusick, gives his occupation as a reporter. He was the local editor of the Daily Herald, Dayton in 1888 & 1889. Edith says she has no occupation but states that she is from London, England, the daughter of George and Anney.
On 6 July 1906 Winifred Elsie Constable the daughter of Arthur Fay Constable and Edith Constable formerly Pyne was born at 91 St James Road, Bermondsey. Edith Constable is the informant and gives her address as 91 St James Road. Arthur's occupation is given as a shipping clerk. ￼
It is not entirely clear what happened next, for the 1900 US census shows 29 year old Arthur Constable, single and living with his mother Adelia in Cook, Illinois and in 1901 the census shows Edith, single aged 25 living with her widowed mother, Annie. They were boarding with Mark Allen, a 63 year old self employed ship porter (docks) and his 56 year old wife Sarah at 269 Halley Road, East Ham, Essex. Edith Pine, aged 25, born Bermondsey, gives her occupation as an actress. With her is her daughter, Constance Pine, aged 4, born Bermondsey, who I take to be Winifred Elsie.
Edith Eleanor Pyne married 35 year old Arthur Henry Pennett, a theatrical property master on 3 November 1905 at West Ham Registry Office. Both were resident at 112 Monega Road, Forest Gate at the time of their marriage. Arthur was described as the son of Alfred James Pennett, deceased, a former bookbinder. Edith Eleanor Pyne is described as a 26 year old spinster, the daughter of George Thomas Pyne deceased, a former vocalist. The witnesses were Samuel Pennett and Ada Fraser, Edith's sister.
In 1911 39 year old Arthur Pennett, a property master (stage hand) and 31 year old Edith Pennett, actress, were boarding at 25 Oozells Street North, Birmingham, with George and Jane Partridge, brass workers and their children. Also boarding with them was 50 year old Verona Fuller, actress and 19 year old William Finch, dresser. It is not clear what had happened to Edith's daughter Winifred Elsie Constance who would have been 14 years old. To date I can find no trace of her in the 1911 census.
Edith Eleanor Pennett died in 1926 aged 45 (Reg Gen June Qtr 1926 Paddington 1a 95).
In 1939 Arthur H Pennett, a theatrical probe and master was living at Carlyle Road, East Ham. Also at the same address was Marie Strathmore, a theatrical wardrobe mistress. Arthur Henry Pennett died in 1943 (Reg Gen March 1943 Hammersmith 1a 268)
￼Edith's first husband Arthur Fay Constable remarried in Chicago on 15 April 1902 and went on to have two more daughters. He died on 11 January 1954 in Los Angeles
Her daughter Winifred married Joseph William Melling Wright in 1919 (Reg Gen Sept 1919 Paddington 1a 233). Joseph appears to have been in the shipping business and travelled between Africa and the United Kingdom. The following trips have been located
- 26 December 1921, 23 year old Joseph of 15 Kinnard Close, Wallesley, Cheshire arrived in Liverpool from Lagos, Africa
- 13 March 1927, Joseph arrives in Liverpool from Africa on "M S Aba" His occupation is "shipping agent"
- 1 November 1929 Joseph arrives in Liverpool from the Gold Coast. His address is 42 Bournemouth Road, Blackpool
Joseph and Winifred had two sons, who are pictured below with their mother
- John A Wright "Jack". Born 1921 (Reg Gen June 1921 West Ham 4a 583)
- Robert B Wright. Born 1922 (Reg Gen Dec 1922 West Ham 4a 494)
Joseph and Winifred divorced in 1936. Joseph was the appellant and George Horace Garside was named as the co-respondent
Winifred married George Horace Garside in 1937 (Reg Gen March 1937 Blackpool 8e 1125).
In 1939 George H Garside, a dispenser and his wife Winifred were living at 99B Park Road, Blackpool. Her aunt Grace Florence Ponting was living with them.
George Horace Garside of 363 Blackpool Old Road, Carleton near Blackpool died on 4 November 1957 at London Hospital, Stephney. Administration was granted to Winifred Elsie Garside, his widow.
Winifred Elsie Garside died in 1976 (Reg Gen March 1976 Blackpool and Flyde 40 481).