VOL. IV - CHAPTER 8
Jonathan Veness and Mary Deness
Johnathan Veness, son of Joseph and Francis Veness was baptised on 2 May 1819 at Wartling Parish Church (Chapter 4).
In 1841 census, 20 year old Jonathan was living with his parents at Mill Farm Cottages, Wartling. No occupation is given.
On 20 July 1844 Jonathan, a labourer of full age, son of Joseph Veness, labourer, married Mary Deness, aged 19, daughter of William Deness, labourer at Ashburnham Parish Church. The marriage was witnessed by William Veness and Mary Veness, Jonathan's brother and sister.
Jonathan and Mary had seven children baptised at Wartling Parish Church:
- Joseph Veness baptised 15 December 1844.
- Johnathan Veness baptised 21 March 1847.
- James Veness baptised 4 March 1849.
- William Veness. Born 1 August 1850. Baptised 8 September 1850.
- Mary Veness baptised 15 February 1851.
- Sarah Veness baptised 23 January 1854.
- Jason Deness Veness baptised 8 April 1856.
And two children born in Westham.
- Fanny Veness. Born 1860
- Lissey (Lizzy) Veness. Born 1860
When their son Joseph was baptised, Jonathan and Mary were living at Montague House, Boreham, but by the time the 1851 census was taken they had moved and were living at Poisey Green, where 32 year old Jonathan was an agricultural labourer. Also lodging with them was Isaac Smith, widower, a clerk to the miller.
Poisey Green (now Posey Green) is one of 2 former hamlets making up Windmill Hill in the parish of Wartling. It consists of little more than what is now the Horseshoe Inn with Comphurst Cottages (Chapter 7) next door and the school house next to that and a row of cottages opposite.
Windmill Hill was presumably so named because of its mill that seems to have been there since Elizabethan times, when a survey of Herstmonceux Castle estate mentions "Wyndmylhyll". It was probably built to provide flour for the iron foundry workers at Warbleton and Ashburnham . In 1769, the windmill was tenanted by John Edwards, and is on Yeakell and Gardner's map of 1783. In 1814 the mill which was then owned by John Pocock (no known relation!) was demolished and replaced by the current windmill which is one of the largest post mills in Sussex, and possibly throughout Britain. In 1893/4 the sweeps were removed, and a steam engine was installed by Neves of Warbleton to provide power. In 1913 the mill ceased to mill corn, but was left as a landmark for shipping in the channel to use. This mill is the last in England to possess the remains of a centrifugal governor system for controlling the sail area.
Poisey Green is also the given name of the cottages opposite the Horseshoe Inn, and the census indicates that this was where Jonathan and his family were living.
In 1861 the family were living at Glenly Cottage, Westham. 43 year old Jonathan and his sons Jonathan Veness, aged 14, and James Veness, aged 12 were all agricultural labourers. The twins Fanny and Lizzy were only two months old.
Jonathan and Mary's daughter Sarah Veness died in 1862.
In 1871 the family were living at Handcomb, Westham where 52 year old Jonathan was an agricultural labourer. His son James aged 22 and Jason, aged 14 were also described as agriculural labourers. daughters, Mary, aged 19, and Fanny and Lizzie, aged 9 were both living at home, the latter two described as "scholars".
Mary Veness died in 1880 and in 1881, Jonathan, a widower is living at no 3 Brewery Cottages, Junction Road, Eastbourne. Aged 62 and described as a bricklayers labourer, he was living with daughter Mary, aged 29 and two boarders, Thomas Aldridge, and John Fraser. Living at the same address, but in a separate household was daughter Lizzy (see below)
Jonathan Veness aged 67 died in 1886 (Reg Gen March Qtr 1886 Eastbourne 2b 64)
The little that is known about Jonathan and Mary's children and their descendants and this is detailed below:
Joseph Veness and Annie
Joseph Veness was baptised on 15 December 1844 at Wartling, the son of Jonathan Veness and Mary Deness.
By 1871, 26 year old Joseph was living and working in Eastbourne. He was employed as a groom, a domestic servant and was living with gardener Joseph Smith, Sarah Smith, his wife and George Dickinson, stableman at 3 Prentis Street, Eastbourne. I assume all three men worked together.
In 1881, still single, 37 year old Joseph H Veness is a hotel servant at the New Inn, South Street, Eastbourne. The original description of his occupation is "boots" but someone has overwritten "hotel servant". The 52 year old inn keeper was Harry B Winchester, born Herstmonceux.
It is possible that by 1891 47 year old Joseph had married and was living at 2 Surbiton Mews, Eastbourne with his 35 year old wife Annie, although the census shows this Joseph was born in Eastbourne. He is employed as a luggage porter. He is still there and still so employed in 1901. The couple do not appear to have had any children. In 1911 Joseph and Annie were living at 1 Surbiton Mews, Langney Road, Eastbourne. Joseph, now 66 was still a luggage porter and 62 year old Annie was a domestic. Annie had been born in Ireland. Joseph Veness died in 1913 aged 69 (Reg Gen Dec Qtr 1913 Eastbourne 2b 93). Annie Veness died in 1931 in Eastbourne.
If this is not "our" Joseph it is not known what became of him.
Jonathan Veness and Harriett Dennis
Jonathan Veness was baptised on 21 March 1847, son of Jonathan Veness and Mary Deness.
In 1867 Jonathan Veness married Harriett Dennis at Eastbourne (Reg Gen March Qtr 1867 Eastbourne 2b 81).
I can find no trace of the couple in the 1871 census. In 1881 the family was living at 10 Waterloo Place, Lewes where Jonathan was a 34 year old blacksmith.
Jonathan and Harriett had nine children:
- Agnes Harriett Veness. Born 3 October 1867 in Brighton
- James Veness. Born 24 September 1869 in Brighton.
- Joseph Veness. Born 27 April 1872 in Brighton.
- Caroline Hannah Veness. Born 1874 in Lewes (Reg Gen Dec Qtr 1874 Lewes 2b 173)
- George Veness. Born 1877 in Lewes (Reg Gen Dec Qtr 1877 Lewes 2b 187)
- Albert Veness. Born 1879 in Lewes (Reg Gen Dec Qtr 1879 Lewes 2b 190).
- Charles Veness. Born 1882 in Lewes
- Mabel Veness. Born 1884 in Lewes
- William Veness. Born 1886 in Lewes
In 1891 "John Venus", a 44 year old blacksmith, his wife Harriett and children, Agnes, aged 23, Joseph, aged 18, a printers compositor, Carrie, aged 16, George, aged 13, Albert, aged 11, Charlie, aged 9, Mabel, aged 7 and Willie, aged 5 were living at 10 Waterloo Place, Lewes.
Johnathan Veness of Waterloo Place, Lewes, smith died on 24 July 1899 aged 52 years old. Probate was granted to his widow Harriett. His effects were worth £214. 8s. 6d.
In 1901 his widow Harriett is living at 9, Frome Walk, Westham. Aged 58 she is described as "living on her own means". Only Charles, Mabel and William are living with her.
In 1911, 68 year old Harriett was living at 3 Southdown Road, Brighton. She states that she is "kept by sons". Sons Charles and William remain at home as do daughters Caroline and Mabel.
Harriett Veness of 6 Dorking Road, Tunbridge Wells died on 14 November 1919. Probate was granted to Joseph Veness, journalist.
- Agnes Harriett Helmsley nee Veness
Agnes Harriett Hemsley was born on 3 October 1867, the daughter of Jonathan Veness and Harriett Deness.
Agnes married Louis Hemsley in 1892 in Lewes (Reg Gen June Qtr 1892 Lewes 2b 352)
Agnes and Louis had one child Agnes Lena Hemsley, who was born on 15 July 1896 in Newhaven
In 1901 Louis and Agnes were living in 16 Lawes Avenue, Newhaven with their 5 year old daughter, Lena. Louis, 34 was a carpenter.
Louis Hemsley of 3 Lawes Avenue, Newhaven, carpenter and joiner, died on 21 June 1902 aged 36. Probate was granted to Agnes Hemsley, widow.
In 1911 Agnes was a 37 year old widow working as housekeeper to George Thomas Sparkes, a single agricultural engineer at Yapton in Arundel, Sussex. Her daughter Agnes Lena Hemsley, aged 15 was also living with them.
In 1939 Agnes was living at 127, Holland Road, Kensington, with her daughter Lena A Hemsley. Both were on "unpaid domestic duties".
Agnes H Hemsley died in 1941 in Kensington.
- James Veness and Agnes Beatrice Barron
James Veness was born on 24 September 1869 in Brighton, the son of Jonathan Veness and Harriett Deness.
James Veness married Agnes Beatrice Barron on 30 August 1897 at St Andrews, Stockwell Green, Lambeth. James is described as son of "John Veness", blacksmith. Later census returns confirm he was born in Brighton in 1869 so I believe this is "our" James. James gives his address as 113 Park Lane, Stoke Newington. Agnes Beatrice Barron was a 30 year old spinster of 127 Hubert Grove, the daughter of John Barron, plumber.
In 1901 James and Agnes were living at 19 Piercefield Street, St Pancras, where 31 year old James was a farrier and shoeing smith (blacksmith).
In 1911 they were living living at 1 Leavale Cottage, Wormley, Herts, where 41 year old James was a blacksmith, born Brighton, Sussex.
By 1939 James had been widowed and was a retired blacksmith, living at 14, Muir Road, Maidstone.
- Joseph Veness and Louisa Maria Caroline Mattin
Joseph Veness was born on 27 April 1872 in Brighton, the son of Jonathan Veness and Harriett Deness.
In 1901 Joseph Veness, aged 28 was a newspaper reporter boarding with William and Alice Walford, a sub post master at 69 High Street, Walton Le Soken.
Joseph married Louisa Maria Caroline Mattin on 8 August 1908 at the Congregational Church, Southernhay, Exeter. Joseph was a 36 years old bachelor living in Bromley Kent. His occupation is "journalist". Louisa was 25 years old and gives her address as 9 West Grove Road, St Leonards, Exeter. Her father was Leonard Mattin, an iron moulder. Both parties signed the marriage register. The witnesses were Kathleen Mattin, Louisa's sister and Charles Veness, Joseph's brother. (Reg Gen Sept Qtr 1908 Exeter 5b 166).
In 1911 Joseph and Louisa were living at 36 Morgan Road, Bromley, Kent. Joseph, aged 38 was a journalist.
They had a daughter Marjorie Harriett Veness in 1915.
Joseph Veness is listed at 'Scoop' an internet site providing details of journalists, but no further information is given.
In 1939 Joseph, Louisa and Marjorie were living at 82, Bubbacombe Road, Bromley. Joseph was a journalist and his daughter Marjorie, a shorthand typist.
In 1948 Joseph, Louisa and Marjorie Veness were living at 3 Llandudno Villas, Cheltenham.
Joseph Veness of 6 Merrivale Road, Cheltenham died on 15 March 1950 at 6 Merrivale Road, Cheltenham. Probate was granted to Louisa Maria Caroline Veness, widow.
Louisa Maria Caroline Veness of 6 Merrivale Road, died on 13 October 1953. Probate was granted to Majorie Harriett Veness, spinster.
In 2004, their daughter Marjorie H Veness was living at Southwater Residential Home, 2-4, Conway Crescent, Paignton, TQ4 5LG. Marjorie died the same year.
- Caroline Hannah Veness
Caroline Hannah Veness was born in 1874 in Lewes, the daughter of Jonathan Veness and Harriett Dennis.
In 1901 Caroline Veness was boarding at 69 Catherine Street, Westminster, London with John Hardiman and his family. She is employed as a shop assistant in a clothiers.
By 1911 she is back living with her widowed mother at 3 Southdown Road, Brighton. Aged 35 she is employed as a "costume show room salesman".
Caroline never married. Caroline Hannah Veness of 3 Southdown Road, Brighton, spinster, died on 16 January 1916 aged 39. Administration was granted to Joseph Veness, journalist.
- George Veness
George Veness was born in 1877 in Lewes, the son of Jonathan Veness and Harriett Dennis.
In 1891 he was 13 years old, living with his parents "John Venus" and Harriett at 10 Waterloo Place, All Saints, Lewes, Nothing more is known about him.
- Albert Veness
Albert Veness was born 1879 in Lewes, the son of Jonathan Veness and Harriett Dennis.
Albert joined the Royal Navy and in 1901 he is a 20 year old cooks mate listed as on "vessels at sea".
In 1911 Sargeant Albert Veness, aged 31 is still in the military, serving as a farrier with the 6th Dragoon Guards in "Mauritus and South Africa".
- Charles Veness
Charles Veness was born in 1882 in Lewes, the son of Jonathan Veness and Harriett Dennis.
In 1911, he was a 29 ledger clerk at a corn merchant, he was still single and living with his widowed mother at 3 Southdown Road, Brighton.
Charles Veness of the Royal Horse Artillery and Royal Field Artillery died on 26 August 1916 in India.
- Mabel Veness
Mabel Veness was born in 1884 in Lewes, the son of Jonathan Veness and Harriett Dennis.
In 1911 she was a 27 year old, "shop clerk" living with her widowed mother and brothers.
- William Veness
William Veness was born in 1886 in Lewes, the son of Jonathan Veness and Harriett Dennis.
In 1911, William was 25 year old grocers assistant at the Co-operative Society, living with his widowed mother and siblings.
James Veness was baptised was 4 March 1849 at Wartling, the son of Jonathan Veness and Mary Deness.
In 1871 James was 22 years old and an agricultural labourer. He was still living with his parents at Handcomb, Westham.
Nothing further is known about James Veness.
William Veness and Rhoda Ann Waymark
William Veness was born on 1 August 1850 and baptised on 8 September 1850 at Wartling, the son of Jonathan Veness and Mary Deness.
William married Rhoda Ann Waymark in 1876 (Reg Gen Sept Qtr 1876 Eastbourne 2b 98). William and Rhoda are pictured on their wedding day. These photographs and that of William below were posted on Ancestry.co.uk by M Windmill.
William and Rhoda had eight children:
- Ada Elizabeth Veness. Born 1878 in East Grinstead.
- William Veness. Born 17 January 1879 in East Grinstead
- Joseph Venness. Born 1881 in Eastbourne.
- Edith Veness . Born 1881 in Eastbourne
- Henry Veness. Born 11 November 1882 in Eastbourne
- Rhoda Ann Veness. Born 1887 in Eastbourne
- Charlie Waymark Veness. Born 1892 in Eastbourne
- Amelia Milton Veness. Born 18 March 1895 in Eastbourne
In 1881 the family were living in Bourne Street, Eastbourne where 30 year old William was a gardener. Their youngest son at the time Joseph was just 11 months old. When most of the children were born and in 1881 and 1891 censuses the family's surname is consistently spelt "Venness"
1n 1891 they were living at 9 Dennis Cottages, Lower Grove, Eastbourne. William was still a gardener.
In 1901 the family were still at Dennis Cottages, Eastbourne and 50 year old William was still working as a domestic gardener. His son Henry, aged 18 was a plumber. Only Henry, Rhoda, Charlie and Amelia remained at home.
In 1911 William and Rhoda were living at Beachy Head Road, Eastbourne, Sussex. 60 year old William was still a gardener. Only daughter Amelia, aged 16 remained at home, but William and Rhoda's grandson, six year old William Gillam was staying with them at the time.
Rhoda Ann Veness of 2 New Cottages, Beachy Head Road, Eastbourne (wife of William Veness) died on 26 August 1921. Probate was granted to Edith Veness, spinster
In 1939 William Veness, a retired gardener was at 2 Beachy Head Road, Eastbourne. His daughter Amelia, aged 44 remained at home. Also listed was Mabel B Veness who was married to William's son Henry (see below).
Nothing further is known about William and Rhoda's son Joseph Veness or their daughter Edith. Of their remaining children:
- Ada Elizabeth Gillam nee Veness
"Ada Elizabeth Venness" was born in 1878 in East Grinstead, the daughter of William and Rhoda' Venness.
Ada married John Henry Gillam in 1902 (Reg Gen Dec Qtr 1902 Eastbourne 2b 220).
They had a son William Henry Gillam, born on 10 April 1904 in Eastbourne.
Ada Elizabeth Gillam died on 26 November 1905 at 25, St Georges Road, Eastbourne, aged 28 years old. She died following a stillbirth. This death certificate was posted on Ancestry.co.uk by M Windmill.
In 1911 John Henry Gillam, a 31 year old widower, a motor engineer was living with his widowed mother, Rebecca Gillam at 30 Junction Road, Eastbourne. His son William, aged 6 was staying with his grandparents, William and Rhoda.
John Henry Gillam remarried in 1912. His second wife was Edith Caroline May Sinden. They had two children.
In 1939 they were living at 6, Parkfield Avenue, Eastbourne where John was a motor engineer.
John Henry Gillam of 6 Parkfield Avenue, Hampden Park, Eastbourne died on 4 November 1945 at Princess Alice Hospital, Eastbourne. Probate was granted Edith Caroline May Gillam, widow.
Edith Caroline M Gillam died in 1976 in Eastbourne, aged 90 years.
John Henry and Ada Elizabeth's son William Henry Gillam married Pheobe Pettitt on 20 March 1926 in Steyning, Sussex. In 1939 they were living at 9, Stanhope Stanton Road, Southampton and William was a car and commercial vehicle motor fitter. William Henry Gillam of 34 Meadowmead Avenue, Southampton died on 2 January 1966 in Royal South Hants Hospital, Southampton. Phoebe died in 1994 in the New Forest.
- William Veness and Emily Annie Knight.
William Venness was born on 17 January 1879 in East Grinstead, the son of William and Rhoda' Venness.
William married Emily Annie Knight on 27 February 1898 in Cuckfield (Reg Gen March Qtr 1898 Cuckfield 2b 245)
They had five children:
- William Knight Veness. Born 1898 in Lindfield
- Emily Annie Veness. Born 1901 in Lindfield.
- Frederick Henry Veness. Born 2 June 1902 in Lindfield
- Edith Mary Veness. Born 24 February 1905 in Haywards Heath
- Ernest Walter Veness. Born 1908 in Lindfield.
In 1901, the family were living at Mill Green Road, Cuckfield and 22 year old William was a handy-man in an engineering department.
In 1911 they were living at 12 College Road, Cuckfield and William was a "handy-man" in an engineers department.
In 1939 they were still at College Road and William was a bridge repairer in the Engineers Dept. of Southern Railway. Only daughter Edith remained at home.
Emily Annie Veness of 12 College Road, Haywards Heath (wife of William Veness), died on 16 December 1957. Administration was granted to William Veness, retired railway worker.
William and Emily's son William Knight Veness joined the army as a private in the Manchester Regiment. He was awarded the Victory and British medal. The Victory Medal 1914-1919 was awarded to all eligible personnel who served on the establishment of a unit in an operational theatre. The British War Medal 1914-1920, was awarded to eligible service personnel and civilians alike. The basic requirement for army personnel and civilians was that they either entered a theatre of war, or rendered approved service overseas between 5 August 1914 and 11 November 1918. William Knight Veness was killed in Flanders on 21 March 1918.
William and Emily's daughter Emily Annie Veness married Horace George Wood in 1921 in Cuckfield. They had one daughter:
- Doris Emily Wood. Born 6 August 1923 in Brighton. Doris married Richard John Lilley in 1947 in Sittingbourne, Kent. Richard John Lilley of 43, Stokes Road, London, E6 died on 3 December 1971 in Havering. Doris Emily Lilley died in 1993 in Ashford, Kent.
In 1939 Horace George Wood was living at 5, Niederwald Road, Lewisham with Mr & Mrs Chamberlain. He was a railway signalman and shown as married, but his wife and daughter were not at that address.
William and Emily's son Frederick Henry Veness became a porter at Balcombe Station on 22 April 1918. Frederick Henry Veness of 50, Hailsham Road, Polegate died on 3 April 1981.
In 1939 William and Emily's daughter Edith Mary Veness was living with her parents at 12 College Road, Cuckfield. She is described as " Area supervisor of cashiers and book-keepers for a retail and grocery distributor". Her surname is crossed out and replaced with "Wood" which other entries suggest she may later married a Wood.
William and Emily's son Ernest Walter Veness married Hilda M Pryor in 1928 in Cuckfield. Ernest died in 1976. They had at least one child. I have corresponded with people related to Ernest and Hilda. Ernest was the great great grandson of Joseph Veness and Fanny Hook as was my grandfather William Douglas Veness. They were third cousins.
- Henry Veness and Mabel Blanche Russell
Henry Veness was born on 11 November 1882 in Eastbourne, the son of William and Rhoda' Venness.
Henry joined the Royal Navy first serving on the Duke of Wellington on 9 May 1902 and last serving on Fishguard on 8 May 1924.
Henry Veness married Mabel Blanche Russell in April 1909 in Eastbourne.
In 1939 Mabel B Veness was living with Henry's father William Veness, a retired gardener at 2 Beachy Head Road, Eastbourne. It is not clear where Henry was.
In 1960 Henry and Mabel Blanche Veness were listed in the electoral register at 46 Vanston Place, Samuel Lewis Trust Dwellings, Fulham, SW6. Samuel Lewis was born in Birmingham in 1837, he became a salesman of steel pens, opened a jewellers shop and then moved into money lending. When he died in 1901 he left an endowment of £670k to provide housing for the poor and Vanston Place was one of the first to be built between 1920 and 1922.
However the electoral register was not entirely accurate, for Henry Veness of 46 Lewis Trust Buildings, Vanston Place, Fulham Broadway had died on 9 December 1959. Administration was granted to Mabel Blanche Veness, widow.
Mabel Veness died in 1980 in Chelsea, London.
- Rhoda Ann Veness
Rhoda Ann Venness was born in 1866 in Eastbourne, the daughter of William and Rhoda Venness.
In 1911 Rhoda was a 25 year old cook, living with Arthur Moleworth Case, a retired china merchant and his family at Holmbury, Eastbourne.
Rhoda had a son Douglas Maurice Veness who was born in 1920 in Eastbourne.
In 1939 Rhoda was a cook living and working at Brighton C B Mental Hospital, Cuckfield.
Rhoda Ann Veness died in 1946 in Cuckfield.
Douglas Maurice Veness married Doris Turner in 1940 in Oxford.
- Charlie Waymark Veness
- Charlie Waymark Veness
Charlie was born in 1892 in Eastbourne, the son of William and Rhoda Venness.
In 1901 Charlie was living at home with his parents. I can find no trace of Charlie in 1911.
Charles Waymark Veness enlisted in the army in World War 1 and was a Lance Sergeant in the "2nd Battalian Rifle Brigade (The Prince Consort's Own)". He was killed in Flanders on 7 November 1918 and was buried at Etapes Military Cemetary.
- Amelia Milton Veness
Amelia Milton Veness was born on 18 March 1895 in Eastbourne, the daughter of William and Rhoda' Venness.
In 1939 Amelia was still living with her widowed father at 2 Beachy Head Road, Eastbourne.
Amelia appears to have never married.
Amelia Milton Veness of Firwood House, Brassey Avenue, Eastbourne died on 7 December 1986 aged 91 years old (Reg Gen Dec Qtr 1986 Eastbourne 18 451).
Mary Veness was baptised on 15 February 1852 at Wartling, the daughter of Johnathan Veness and Mary Deness.
In 1881, Mary was living with her widowed father at 3 Brewery Cottages, Junction Road, Eastbourne. She was 29 years old and gives her occupation as housekeeper.
In 1891 she was living with her sister Lizzie Hudson and her family at 24 Ashford Road, Eastbourne and was working as a dressmaker (see below)
It is not clear where she was in 1901 but by 1911, now aged 59 she is back living with sister Lizzie at Rossway Street, Leonards Road, Eastbourne. No occupation is given.
Jason Deness Veness and Phoebe Collins
Jason Deness Veness was baptised on 8 April 1856 at Wartling, the son of Johnathan Veness and Mary Deness.
Jason married Phoebe Collins in 1876 at Eastbourne (Reg Gen June Qtr 1876 Eastbourne 2b 113)
In 1881 they were living at 58, Bourne Street, Eastbourne where 25 year old Jason was a general labourer. Two children were listed
- Agnes Veness. Born 15 November 1876 in Eastbourne
- Frederick Charles Veness. Born 1879 in Eastbourne
Also listed was Robert Johnson a 33 year old joiner who was lodging with them.
In 1891, Jason, aged 35, a bricklayers labourer and his wife Phoebe, aged 33, were living at 127 Ashtead Road, Eastbourne. They had five more children:
- Alice Edith Veness. Born 17 May 1881 in Eastbourne
- Albert J Veness. Born 1884 in Westham
- Annie Laurie Veness. Born 1887 in Eastbourne
- Elizabeth Veness. Born 1888 in Eastbourne
- Arthur Veness. Born 1890 in Eastbourne.
Their eldest daughter Agnes was no longer at home. Their son Frederick was 14 and already an errand boy. The remaining children were at school or were pre school age. Arthur Veness was only 7 months old.
By 1901 three further children had been born,
- Nellie Veness. Born 1894 in Eastbourne
- Lily Veness. Born 1896 in Eastbourne
- George Veness. Born 1898 in Eastbourne
but their father Jason had died in 1898. The family were living at 12 New Road, Eastbourne. Phoebe is listed as "Ann", aged 43, a laundress, born Bexhill. Her sons Frederick, aged 22 and Albert Veness, aged 17 are both employed as bricklayers. Also still at home are 12 year old Lizzie, 10 year old Arthur, 7 year old Nellie, Lily, aged 5 and George, aged 2.
In 1911 "Annie" is living at 16 New Road, Eastbourne. Her sons Frederick, now a 32 year old bricklayer, Albert, a 27 year old general labourer , Arthur, a 20 year old milkman and George, a 13 year old errand boy for a newsagents are all at home. Nellie and Lily, aged 17 and 15 are also still at home. Visiting at the time was 66 year old widow Mary Simons.
Phoebe Veness died in 1929 in Eastbourne.
Nothing more is known about Arthur or Lily Veness.
A little is known about her other children and this is detailed below.
- Agnes Veness
Agnes Veness was born on 15 November 1876 in Eastbourne, the daughter of Jason Deness Veness and Phoebe Collins.
In 1891, aged just 14, Agnes was a general servant, living with and working for Ann Rowlatt, a 37 year old widow "living on her own means" and her children at 1 Cornfield Terrace, Cornfield Road, Eastbourne.
In 1901 Agnes was 24 years old and a general domestic servant living with and working for Richard B Brotheress, 47 year old schoolmaster (drawing) and his family at 48 Upperton Gardens, Eastbourne.
In 1939 Agnes was living at 61, Langney Road, Eastbourne. She was an apartment house keeper. Also at the address was her sister Alice, a boarding house keeper.
- Frederick Charles Veness
Frederick Charles Veness was born in 1877 in Eastbourne, the daughter of Jason Deness Veness and Phoebe Collins.
In 1914 he enlisted in the Royal Sussex Regiment. He was a 35 year old bricklayer, living with his mother in Christchurch, Eastbourne.
Frederick C Veness died in 1955 in Eastbourne.
- Alice Edith Veness
Alice Edith Veness was born on 17 May 1881 in Eastbourne, the daughter of Jason Deness Veness and Phoebe Collins.
In 1901 19 year old Alice was a general servant, living with and working for Henry B Jennings, a 49 year old sailor and his family at 63, Langney Street, Eastbourne.
In 1911, Alice Edith Veness, aged 29 was a cook to Robert Herbert Scotter, civil engineer and his family at 22 Elm Grove, Southsea, Hants. Her sister Elizabeth, now 22 was a housemaid in the same house (see below).
In 1939 Alice, a boarding house keeper, was living with her sister Agnes at 61 Langney Road, Eastbourne.
Alice Edith Veness of 16, New Road, Eastbourne died on 12 July 1969.
- Albert J Veness
Albert J Veness was born in 1884 in Eastbourne, the daughter of Jason Deness Veness and Phoebe Collins.
He died in 1963 in Eastbourne.
- Annie Laurie Quartermaine nee Veness
Annie Laurie Veness was born in 1887 in Eastbourne, the daughter of Jason Deness Veness and Phoebe Collins.
In 1901 Annie L Veness was a 14 year old general servant, living with and working for Emily Bays, a 53 year old widow "living on her own means, and her family at 103, Ashford Road, Eastbourne.
In 1911 Annie Laurie Veness, aged 24 was a cook to John Patrick Goode, a dealer in mines and estates and his family at Darley Lodge, Darley Road, Eastbourne.
Annie married Walter Charles Quartermaine on 28 October 1916 at Holy Trinity and St Peter's Church, South Wimbledon. Walter was a 39 year old butcher the son of Alfred Quartermaine, butcher. His address was 9 Congreene Road, Eltham. Annie was a 30 year old spinster, living at 27 Stanley Road, wimbledon. Her father is stated as Jason Veness. builder, even though he had died by the time of the marriage. Her sister Alice Edith Veness was one of the witnesses.
In 1919 Walter and Annie were registered at 17 Prince Rupert Road, Eltham.
They appear to have had two children
- Leslie Charles Quartermaine. Born 13 November 1917 in Eastbourne.
- Doris Phoebe Quartermaine. Born 1924 in Eastbourne.
In 1946 they were living at 163, Seaside, Eastbourne.
Walter Charles Quartermaine died on 28 November 1953 at Eastbourne.
Annie Laura Quartermaine of 163 Seaside, Eastbourne, widow died on 9 December 1958 at Princess Alice's Hospital, Eastbourne. Probate was granted to Doris Phoebe Quartermaine, spinster and Leslie Charles Quartermaine, picture framer.
Their son Leslie Charles Quartermaine of 19, Mill Road, Eastbourne died on 6 November 1991.
- Elizabeth Veness
Elizabeth Veness was born in 1888 in Eastbourne, the daughter of Jason Deness Veness and Phoebe Collins.
In 1911, Elizabeth Veness, aged 22 was a housemaid to Robert Herbert Scotter, civil engineer and his family at 22 Elm Grove, Southsea, Hants. Her sister Alice Edith, aged 29 was a cook in the same household.
- Nellie May Veness
Nellie Veness was born 1894 in Eastbourne, the daughter of Jason Deness Veness and Phoebe Collins.
in 1911 she was 17 years old, but unlike her elder sisters who were all in service by that age, she was still living at home with her widowed mother, at 16, New Road, Eastbourne.
It is probable Nellie never married.
Nellie May Veness of 16, New Road died on 29 November 1972.
- George Ernest Veness
George Ernest Veness. was born in 1898, the son of Jason Deness Veness and Phoebe Collins.
On 14 November 1916 George Ernest Veness of 16, New Road, Eastbourne, an 18 year old news vendor, enlisted in the Grenadier Guards. He was wounded in the abdomen in 1918 and was discharged on 31 March 1920.
Fanny Veness was born in 1861, the daughter of Johnathan Veness and Mary Deness.
In 1871 she was a 9 year old living with her parents at Handcomb, Warbleton.
Nothing more is known about Fanny.
Lizzy Hudson nee Veness
Lissey (Lizzy) Veness was born in 1861, the daughter of Johnathan Veness and Mary Deness. Although shown as Lissey in the 1861 census return, Jonathan and Mary's youngest daughter was registered as Lizzy (Reg Gen March Qtr 1861 Eastbourne 2b 46)
In 1879 Lizzy married Alfred Hudson at Eastbourne (Reg Gen Dec Qtr 1879 Eastbourne 2b 169).
In 1881 Alfred Hudson, aged 24, bricklayer and Lizzie Hudson, aged 20 were living at 3 Brewery Cottages, Junction Road, Eastbourne. Living with them was Alfred's 13 year old brother, Albert Hudson, an errand boy at a printing office. Also at the same address, but shown as a separate family, was Lizzy's widowed father Jonathan Veness and her sister Mary Veness.
Alfred and Lizzie had ten children:
- Florence Hudson. Born 25 April 1882 in Eastbourne.
- Lizzie Hudson. Born 1883 in Eastbourne (Reg Gen Sept Qtr 1883 Eastbourne 2b 82)
- Edith Mary Hudson. Born 6 July 1886 in Eastbourne.
- Ernest Charles Hudson. Born 1890 in Eastbourne (Reg Gen March Qtr 1890 Eastbourne 2b 72)
- Caroline Hannah Hudson. Born 24 January 1891 in Eastbourne
- Lily Hudson. Born 1892 in Eastbourne (Reg Gen Sept Qtr 1892 Eastbourne 2b 93)
- Rose Hudson. Born 1896 in Eastbourne (Reg Gen March Qtr 1896 Eastbourne 2b 71)
- Albert Edward Hudson. Born 31 August 1897 in Eastbourne
- Harold James Jason Hudson. Born 31 December 1898 in Eastbourne
- Charles Hudson. Born 1903 in Eastbourne.
In 1891 the family were living at 24 Ashford Road, Eastbourne. Alfred Hudson, aged 34 was a bricklayer. Also at the same address were lodgers
- Benjamin Wood, aged 34, music seller assistant
- Mary S Fife, aged 64. Living off own means
- Mary Veness, aged 39, dress maker, born Herstmonceux
- Mary J Thompson, aged 28, dress maker.
Mary Veness was Lizzie's elder sister (see above).
In 1899 they were living at 32, Terminus Place, Eastbourne.
By 1901, the family were living at Rossway Street, St Leonards. Alfred was still working as a bricklayer. Their 18 year old daughter Florence was working as a dressmaker and 14 years old Edith as a Milliners assistant. All the other children were at home.
In 1911 the family are still at Rossway Street, Leonards Road, Eastbourne. Alfred aged 54 is a builder and contractor. Daughters Edith Mary , aged 24 and Caroline aged 20 were dressmakers. Son, Ernest, aged 21 was a decorator. Daughter Caroline, aged 20 was a dressmaker. The younger children were at school. Alfred's mother, Hannah Hudson, a 88 year old widow was also living with the family, as was Lizzie's sister Mary.
Lizzy Hudson died in 1938 in Hailsham.
In 1939 Alfred Hudson, retired bricklayer was living at Peartree Cottage, Vicarage Lane, Hailsham with Fanny Goldsmith, aged 78, widow.
Alfred Hudson died on 9 January 1943 in Hailsham.
Nothing more is known about Edith Mary Hudson, Ernest Charles Hudson or Lily Hudson,
- Florence Coates nee Hudson
Florence Hudson was born on 25 April 1882 in Eastbourne, the daughter of Alfred Hudson and Lizzy Veness.
Florence married William Edgar Coates in 1906 in Eastbourne (Reg Gen June Qtr 1906 Eastbourne 2b 185).
In 1911 they were living at 97 Ruskin Avenue, Manor Park, Essex where 31 year old William was a "ticket and show card writer". The couple had two children:
- William Hudson Coates. Born 23 December 1907 in Manor Park.
- Constance Florence Coates. Born 6 August 1910 in Manor Park.
In 1939 William and Florence were living at 18, Milton Road, Eastbourne and William was a show card and signwriter.
Florence Coates died on 15 September 1962 in Eastbourne.
William Edgar Coates of Manor Nursing Home, Lelant St Ives, Cornwall died on 11 March 1973.
William Hudson Coates married Marion R Wrightson in 1962 in Paddington. He died in May 1987 in Cornwall
Constance Florence Coates married Harley F Brewster in 1934 in Eastbourne. Constance Florence Brewster died in 2002 in Eastbourne.
- Lizzie Hudson
Lizzie Hudson was born in 1884 in Eastbourne, the daughter of Alfred Hudson and Lizzy Veness.
It is possible that she never married and died in 1925 in Eastbourne.
- Edith Mary Barley nee Hudson
Edith Mary Hudson was born on 6 July 1886 in Eastbourne, the daughter of Alfred and Lizzy Hudson.
Edith married Owen Charles Barley. Owen had been born in Stony Stratford, Buckinghamshire. In 1901 he was oarding with Jane Bignall and her family at 34 Cavendish Place, Eastbourne. In 1911 he was boarding with Ann Martin, boarding house keeper at 40, Langney Road, Eastbourne. He was 17 years Edith's senior.
They had a daughter Joyce Muriel Barley in 6 September 1916
In 1939 they were living at 16, Charleston Road, Eastbourne. Owen was a master printer and stationer. Daughter Joyce was a shop assistant (stationers), presumably working for her father?
Owen Charles Barley of 13, Charleston Road, Eastbourne died on 16 February 1944. Probate was granted to his widow.
On 28 December 1947, Miss Joyce sailed from Southampton to New Zealand on the Atlantis, arriving on 28 January 1948. She was a 31 year old nursing trainee from Aymond Grange, Eastbourne and she was intending to permanently reside in New Zealand. She returned to the UK arriving in Southampton in October 1950. She gives her address in the UK as 21 Baldwin Avenue, Eastbourne. She did not stay in the UK for in 1963 she is registered at 109 Upland Road, Remuera, Auckland. Also listed is her mother Edith Mary Barley, widow.
Edith Mary Barley of 56, Westcombe Park Road, London, SE3 had sailed from London to Australia on the "Strathmore" on 29 March 1956. Could this have been Joyce's mother? If so, its not clear when she arrived in New Zealand. Edith Mary Barley arrived back in the UK from New Zealand on 16 December 1960. She was intending to stay at 18, Milton Road (with her sister Florence) for 8 to 10 months.
Edith had clearly returned by 1963.
Edith Mary Barley of 109 Upland Road, Remuera, Auckland died in 1971 and was cremated on 6 March 1971 at Purewa Cemetery.
- Caroline Hannah Jackson nee Hudson
Caroline Hannah Hudson was born on 24 January 1891 in Eastbourne, the daughter of Alfred and Lizzy Hudson.
She married George Douglas Jackson on 19 September 1918 at Eastbourne Primitive Methodist Church.
They had a daughter Diana Elena Jackson who was born on 7 November 1923 in England.
In 1939 they were living at 77 Hangleton Crescent, Hove where George was a representative for P.O. telephones.
The family emigrated in the 1940's, possibly firstly to New Zealand, but eventually to Australia.
George Douglas Jackson died on 18 August 1975 at South Blackburn, Victoria, Australia.
Carol Hannah Jackson died on 13 March 1986 in Victoria. The record confirms her parentage. she was buried at Templestowe, Manningham City, Victoria, Australia.
Their daughter Diana married Lovel Blake Davis in 1955. In 1977 they were living in 42, Munro Avenue, Burwood, Chisholm Lovel died in 1980. Diana Davis, retired solicitor, died on 4 November 1989 in Ashburton.
- Rose Johnson nee Hudson
Rose Hudson was born in 1896 in Eastbourne, the daughter of Alfred and Lizzy Hudson.
Rose married Harold George Johnson on 19 October 1918 in Eastbourne.
They had a daughter Joan May Johnson who was born on 25 July 1918 in Hove.
Harold had enlisted in the Royal Army Medical Corps in 1915 and he died at home in Guildford on 1 November 1918 from wounds received.
It is possible Joan never married and died in Worthing in 1997.
- Albert Edward Hudson
Albert Edward Hudson was born on 31 August 1897 in Eastbourne, the son of Alfred and Lizzy Hudson.
Albert married Irene E Jamieson in 1923 in Eastbourne.
In 1939 Albert and "Annie" were living at 20, Mill Road, Eastbourne where Albert was a building contractor, proprietor.
Albert Edward Hudson of Lennox Lodge, 59, Carlisle Road, Eastbourne died on 21 January 1982.
- Harold James Jason Hudson & Winifred Alice Tonkyn
Harold James Jason Hudson was born on 31 December 1898 in Eastbourne, the son of Alfred Hudson and Lizzy Veness.
Harold married Winifred Alice Tonkyn in 1928 in Eastbourne.
In 1939 they were living at 89, Ringwood Road, Eastbourne where Harold was a manager of a motor repair workshop. They appear to have had two children.
Harold James Jason Hudson of 89, Ringwood Road, Eastbourne died on 26 October 1971.
Winifred Alice Hudson died in 1987 in Shepway, Kent.
- Charles Hudson & Violet Annie Tidey
Charles Hudson. was born in 1903 in Eastbourne, the son of Alfred Hudson and Lizzy Veness.
Charles married Violet Annie Tidey on 3 August 1935 at Portslade, Sussex.
Charles Hudson died on 17 July 1981 in Brighton.